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View Full Version : Please LEO's advise; What to do in hostage situation.



windcatcher
03-30-2007, 04:24 AM
This came up in the round table about an article on the front page.
With all the training of military, and law enforcement, evident on these forums, when a question comes up regarding personal safety the well drys up on suggestions or advice, which, it seems, professional LEO would have some instruction.

I was attempting to post to that question there and then decided I should open the topic here in hopes of drawing more professional suggestions and critique to what I am presenting. My opinions, I will admit, are rather large but my expertise is very small: What little instruction I've had was self preservation techniques and considerations if jumped by a psychotic patient, in an environment where I normally could count on help if I could just escape: Here goes my efforts:



What would I do? Honestly I don't know. But thinking about these senerios of 'just in case this happens' can give one the chance to think about different possibilities when not feeling fear nor threaten and able to think clearly......walking through one's mind the 'what ifs' and making plans along the way.


First of all preventative is always best:
Keep all doors locked when in truck or leaving truck.
Be alert to surroundings.
Avoid confrontation if possible: If unavoidable make simple responses to simple people, panhandlers, beggars....'No' or 'Was hoping you were offering a five' , turn and walk in different direction: don't let it become an issue or argument.

Be prepared for defense:

If attacked be prepared to run and/or draw attention/help from potential witnesses as soon as you're free:

You've already observed your surroundings so you know the areas where you are visible and where you might be cornered out of sight or help from others; whether there's an exit to escape, or where you're escape may be blocked by an assailant.

Keys in hand when walking, with the sharpest key turned out (it can be your defense to poke an eye or gash a face...in which case you get some of their DNA and leave a identifiable mark)

Don't 'not notice' strangers. Look people in the eye but keep your own face neutral. More difficult for men to do, as 'eye' looks may be like a challenge or threat..i.e. "what you looking at? you see something wrong? keep looking and I'll show you something wrong!"....... but that's why you do it in silence .... make them look away first unless they threaten verbally or make a direct approach ...inwhich case you avoid them by giving them space and going around them (which is like a message to them 'your noticed and already in my radar;)......you've got the psychological advantage if they look away and they're less apt to challenge you later.....but they don't want to challenge someone who may already be alert to defend himself or identify them later.

Look alert and like you're taking everything in (even if you really are too tired to do so)..... 'acting' (or posturing for alertness...eyes open taking everything and everyone in, standing tall, walking with purpose and no distraction) can go a long way to looking less like a target one wants to tangle with. If 'vunerable' by an injury or limp, demonstrate energy in gait and purpose in direction as well as alertness..you deminish the notice of your limitations.

When outside the truck but isolated....don't get bothered by distractions: You still have one essential job.....to be alert for your self's sake. Wait until in safer areas before making phone calls, fiddling with papers, etc.

When pretripping, make yourself as visible as possible; wear something strange or different or reflective or do something that would cause you to stand out (flashy...okay...just not jewelry or items that might say 'expensive..steal me')..... by joining you, a would-be theft/assailant increases the liklihood that he might get recognized and doesn't want you or himself to be 'remembered'.

At nighttime, turn on bunker light and keep curtain closed when leaving the truck(assuming its a sleeper). An observer may not be certain that you are alone. If someone enters the truck to wait for you, the light increases the chance that you or others might see them as they part the curtains: or you may see their shadow of movement behind the curtain in time to avoid entering your truck.... or making a quick exit when they start to reveal themself. Day cab? Leave the inside light on. Always make a habit of looking into the round mirrors which show the inside of the cab on the return approach to your truck. Consider changing habits like exiting your truck from the less visible side and returning to your truck from the side more visible...(angled parking).

At nighttime, carry a flashlight in hand and turned on until in well lighted areas. (Again....potential weapon in hand if blow is delivered to windpipe, nose).

Sturdy footwear may protect your feet but also make them a weapon. Someone behind you grabbing, and you have no running chance? Duck your chin onto chest and throw an arm up high and protective against your head while stepping into them (backwards, an a unexpected move, which may confuse and throw them off balance.) The ducking chin may protect momentarily your neck and if simultaneously your arm is thrown up it may prevent a successful closure on your neck by their grab.... and with luck, their hands or arms may cross at your mouth....be prepared to bite like hell and don't let go. Quickly take a step back .....but this time making sure your weight is well on your other foot... the leg you move to step, rises, knee in front (like a march) but leg and foot goes behind.... the intent is to hit their leg hard with the heel of your foot and continue the quick move downward on their shin bone(pain) and come hard with your weight on the top of their foot arch or ankle. Rebalance quickly and pivot with arm still up and protecting your head and then bring your elbow down hard against their grip to release and run...

Vunerable points: Hint a pinch and twist or bite or well planted blow with a hard/sharp instrument to any part of the body normally protected by the way the limbs fold together in movement are soft, and painfully reactive. (arm pit, inside elbow, back of knee, inside thigh, groin and privates, soft areas between throat and chin). If you bite, bite hard to hurt. If they bite, push into the bite and try to cover their nose, even hold their face to you until they release due to difficulty to breath..... and pain in their wide opened jaw. (This is a method I've used successfully to teach puppies not to bite; they can still breath because of the position of their nose, but it is uncomfortable for an opened jaw to be pushed wider....but that also releases the grip and reduces the damage their bite could do.)

Presence of a weapon:
knife, gun, blugeoning instrument: There's no pat answer for every situation.... you just hope for the best and right judgement of what to do.

Consider how each weapon works.... And how much or little attention it draws, and consider your risk if isolated further from help and you own available defense.

A knife depends upon proximity:
If you can get away do so (out run assailant). A stab can be less visible but more deadly than a superficial cut (but a superficial cut may bleed more profusely and make it more evident to bystanders that you've been attacked), so if you see 'it coming' is there a portion of your body you can 'sacrifice' to deflect the blow and give you a chance to escape? Will isolation (going with the person, doing what he wants) increase or decrease the risk to your life or ability to get help?

A person with a gun injures or kills by shooting a projectile into a crucial area of the body.
There's dependance on aim and on the intentions (revealed and hidden) of the assailant so consider first is there's an easy way out to allow your chance to escape (drop your wallet or money and toss keys in different direction). If it distracts even for a moment, a dash for safety may work for escape: The aim is poorer with increasing distance and discharge makes an audible noise which draws attention from other people towards the sound.

A blugeoning instrument (bat, broomstick, hammer) takes swing room for effectiveness.
The harm is faced once the action commits to the blow. Anything that confines the swing room can work to your advantage. There's a natural tendency to swing or attack in the direction of threat or sudden surprise movement: tossing an object may misdirect the aim of blow in a safer direction: Taking advantage of that is up to the victim; can you quickly go for the object with which ever hand is more distant from the attacker, while bringing your fist down hard on his wrist or thumb and twist yourself into his body, as though butting his front with your butt to off center and push him back, then escape forward with/or without weapon towards safety(it is possible you may not have broken it free from his grip) ?

Towels, clothing, bedsheets, pillows, anything that may entangle a weapon may buy the moments to flee or way to disarm. Are there items around (trash, bottles, bungee cords, pens and bolts, etc) that by directing them (kicking or tossing....remember your legs work too) into the feet or legs of the assailant may cause faulty balance, distraction, or falls?

Driving as a hostage:
(From here on it is purely subjective opinion...my own, not professional advice or experience..... In fact my whole post is subjective)

What ever you do the objective is to be safe or get to safety WITHOUT endangering others. Your assailant is depending on your skill to drive while he focuses on pursuading you to do and go where HE WANTS. In a tractor you may have the advantage after all: (It is understandable that as hostage, you are supposed to feel intimidated and nervous.... when its helpful, use these excuses to your advantage.) Does he know anything about big trucks? 'Nervously', delay leaving; stall the engine in the wrong gear. Start it without the start button. Know what instruments and capabilities you have to use your truck as your tool for escape. If he has truck knowledge you'll quickly know you can't bluff delays too long. Can you turn on the jakes for attention? A faulty release of the brakes? Bleed the air out of your braking system so that the compressor must build up before brakes will release? (Could this be a good excuse to get out of the truck 'its necessary, somethings not working right'. In which case you may be able to really disable by pulling an air hose or something, or make an escape run.) Jam gears. Let it buck in the wrong gear. If other people are around, your delaying and playing to gain their attention.

You're 'too nervous' but 'trying to please' is the attitude you want to communicate, all the while you're planning for an escape. Consider the risk to others as you gamble on ways to draw attention to yourself once your moving. Is is possibe to make a 'wrong exit' from the lot which would definately bring attention. (Did you observe the entrance when you stopped to know if it gives other motorists room to navigate safely around a vehicle leaving the wrong way?) What is traffic like at this hour and is visibility working to the advantage and safety of others for risks you're taking. At this point....face it....you're going to be taking risk.... and if your assailant doesn't know about running big trucks you have more access to choices which use the truck in your favor, but you still have a responsibility even more for the safety of other drivers (a serious consideration if taking an entrance for an exit....in which case, if he doesn't notice in time to tell you to turn around...you've commited yourself to a standoff before leaving the parking area as you've no intent on entering traffic in the wrong direction.)

Okay, you exited correctly and are underway. On the road, what can you do in a truck to silently get attention which isn't so obvious to the assailant? turn your brights on? engage your brake lights by light touchs to the brakes: in groups of 3...SOS. ride the brakes or partially engage the trailer brakes to make em smoke? Carefully 'wobble' within your lane by observing for no traffic on sides where you drift? Exceed the speed limit, or go too slow? Purposely miss an open weigh station or breeze into it in the wrong lane? Use emergency flashers or leave signals on? So what if dash lights show 'brights on' or 'turn signal'on which the assailant reads? Flashers, brights....explain there's a 'short' in the switch which makes it faulty even when 'off'. Know the dials on the console: You want to pick the right one....if he's ignorant of trucks ...to demonstrate that what you're saying is true. (For example, does the 'interrupt' switch for the cruise or berth lights switch control outside lights ..or back fan or air control brakes?....no but he might be 'bluffed' into thinking it does and that toggeling doesn't change the dash alerts...proving your excuse of a short in the dash. Approach exits in the wrong lane (if he allows you to pass others) so that taking a exit he wants is not convenient or safe).

You KNOW it doesn't take much to roll a truck, and let your alarm to do so by taking an exit too short appeal to his own survival instincts. Hopefully you gain the attention of other motorist and LEO. In which case, let him make the decisions whether to pull over or run the law...either way you have the law's attention. If exiting a freeway or roadway, go in the direction of people/municipalities. You're the driver who watches the signs....he missed seeing the one which said 'no trucks' in the direction he wanted you to turn but going that way would 'definately get the law after you both...' you tell him, and it is not what he wants. If you plan to wreck (doubtfully there's no sure way of doing it and being safe) try to avoid endangering others, and hopefully you buckled in and will come out the better for it. Jumping out to get away? The time to take that chance was best before leaving the parking area. Jumping out once on the road, you're likely to get hit by another vehicle or if wrecking...be driven over by you're own trailer or have it roll ontop. A purposeful jackknife to the right would present more danger to your assailant and less to you. Barrier contact on the right would probably be safer for the driver and less so to the assailant. There's no way to predict the outcome of a straight on hit with a barrier...messy is the word which comes to my mind.

Once wrecked, you still have to get away to safety, if you survived. Did you pick an observable spot where help is likely to be quick, or were you talked into isolating yourself further, where you're strictly at his mercy?

All of this has been an exercise in what ifs......Hoping that this never happens to anyone here or to anyone that we know..... But like thinking and having a plan as to what to do for a fire, or how to do CPR, thinking ahead of one's self preservation may be a preventative because of greater confidence of thinking 'prepared'.[/size]

Jimbo
03-30-2007, 11:11 AM
I was in a bad situation once, in a local 7-11. I was there talking with the owner, who I had known for years.

In walks this poor little idiot, looking to rob the place. He had a ski mask on, which I thought was a joke. I tought one of my friends was playing a very, very stupid prank on me. I started yelling at him to take off the mask, before he got himself hurt. The guy looks at me, like he's trying to figure out if I'm stupid, or crazy. That's when I saw the gun in his hand. For some reason, it still doesn't hit me that this is a real robbery, and I'm really flying off the handle by now. To use a gun, or something that lloked like one, in a prank was off-the-charts stupid!!

I ask the owner.."Who's this idiot?", in a very angry voice. He looks at me, like he too is trying to figure if I'm nuts or stupid, and says "I.....have.....no..idea".

Now I may have been a little slow on the uptake to this point, but I was catching up fast. This was for real. The guy starts waving the gun around yelling "Give it up". All I could think of at this point was that this guy was going to march us into the cooler, and shoot us.

In less time than you can imagine, I decided that if my son was going to see a video of his dad dying, (the store has a camera pointed right where we were standing) he was going to see his dad going down fighting, not begging. I would be dead either way, but at least this thug wasn't going to have an easy time of it. I drew my own Colt 45, and told him "no, you give it up!" This went against everything he was expecting, and he got all crossed up, and ran back out the door.

This whole idea of doing what you're told, just doesn't sit well with me. I was not trained by the Marines to lay down and give up. If I am going to be a victim, my attacker is going to pay as well.

This might sound all macho, but it's how I feel, and it works for me. These days, you do what you're told, and they still shoot you anyway. Might as well die with a little pride.

king chicken the third
03-30-2007, 11:37 AM
always be awre of your suroundings no matter what, keep in mind that if the "perp" wants to kill you, they will do so in the first ten minutes of the encounter. If they have a club and you have a knife, stab away"I always carry a "pocket knife" just incase I need to "open a box"). If you are attacked with a weapon, present the smallest profile to the attacker to minimize the chance of being hit. and always remember that self defense works if you say the following phrase to the LEO" I was afraid for my life, so I took appropriate mesaures to protect my safety".

Even though I'm not nor ever have been a LEO, I am former army(cav scout\sninper) whos job required having knowledge of close encounter self defense in case I got discovered or captured. And just like Jimbo I never go down with out a fight( seven confirmed kills, two in hand to hand confrontations where I was "out gunned")

Randg1
03-31-2007, 05:26 PM
36 years as a street cop. My first instruction to any new partner was-- NEVER ever give up your weapon if some one has the drop on me!!!! Shoot ther sob no matter what! Then call the ambulance for me and the coroner for them.

USAF_2T2
04-03-2007, 03:23 PM
It is vital to know what is going on around you. I go on calls in the same areas everyday. I still look around alot to see who, what, where, and why people are where they are. If you feel things are not right, they probably aren't(don't think you're just being paranoid, be prepared). You'd be amazed at what your instincts feel, that you may not see. That is to say, your instincts and perception should weigh considerably toward your actions.

If you are to be taken hostage, try to become social/friendly with the suspect. This builds a rapport with them. You know it is all BS, but they don't know that. Try to empahize with them. Saying things like, "hey man, I know how things can get you down, I have been there myself." for example. Ever situation is different and you can't really ever plan for it.

I have 911 saved in my phone as 1. When I hit 1 on my phone it goes to 911. Something I have planned in case something happens. What this does is I hit 1 on my phone and the 911 communicator can hear what is going on without the suspect knowing. Little things like that can save your life.