Really that bad??

[tommy]

I have been hearin a ton of people say they just cannot hang on any longer with low miles, poor freight lanes and the FUEL of course...I know times have changed and it basicly sucks at times, but is it Really that bad ??

What I haul is goin to be good till people stop gettin hurt & sick and the Gov't needs "stuff" so I do not see it as bad, I actually see it as good...

I wonder if some truckers are spending above the limits they need to be or what the real deal is..

Anyone here thinkin of hangin up the keys?

[McGee]

:wtf: ...Oh Please....you listen to the Cb...sit at the coffee counter...these are the business executives of our independent O/O's...scary to listen too...we just got back another of our trks cause the guy just didn't make it...due to pizz poor discission making....through the brokers they are hauling for stupid amounts.... like this guy that we got his trk back....the had a 1000 $$ a month payment...and was running for 1.10 a mile... :wow: ....which seems to be the norm.... :wtf: ...he couldn't even get it done with that...long story tho....and everywhere...absolutely everywhere...these fools pay to work, with the lease purchase deals...and run for 1.10 to 1.20.... :wtf: ...I used to think when ever a fool would fail and lose the trk...'ah...more freight for me'.....there are more fools than I have time for....I think I might open a brokerage... :D

[David_Reed]

:wtf: ...Oh Please....you listen to the Cb...sit at the coffee counter...these are the business executives of our independent O/O's...scary to listen too...we just got back another of our trks cause the guy just didn't make it...due to pizz poor discission making....through the brokers they are hauling for stupid amounts.... like this guy that we got his trk back....the had a 1000 $$ a month payment...and was running for 1.10 a mile... :wow: ....which seems to be the norm.... :wtf: ...he couldn't even get it done with that...long story tho....and everywhere...absolutely everywhere...these fools pay to work, with the lease purchase deals...and run for 1.10 to 1.20.... :wtf: ...I used to think when ever a fool would fail and lose the trk...'ah...more freight for me'.....there are more fools than I have time for....I think I might open a brokerage... :D

God must love fools.
He makes so many of them :D

[Jack5]

:wtf: ...Oh Please....you listen to the Cb...sit at the coffee counter...these are the business executives of our independent O/O's...scary to listen too...we just got back another of our trks cause the guy just didn't make it...due to pizz poor discission making....through the brokers they are hauling for stupid amounts.... like this guy that we got his trk back....the had a 1000 $$ a month payment...and was running for 1.10 a mile... :wow: ....which seems to be the norm.... :wtf: ...he couldn't even get it done with that...long story tho....and everywhere...absolutely everywhere...these fools pay to work, with the lease purchase deals...and run for 1.10 to 1.20.... :wtf: ...I used to think when ever a fool would fail and lose the trk...'ah...more freight for me'.....there are more fools than I have time for....I think I might open a brokerage... :D


Look around you. About 98% of the trucking companies,both big and small,are only offering 1.10 to 1.20 a mile,even the ones that pay a percentage. It is a ridiculous rate to run a trucking business with. There seem to be just far too many trucks than there is freight in a lot of areas.Finding good-paying freight seems to be getting harder to find. Anyone continuosly running for 1.20 a mile,whether leased or with their authority,is already on their way out of business. 2.00 and 3.00 a mile freight doesn't seem to be the norm when it should be.

[David_Reed]

For the past year or so, whenever I got to Central Texas, I could count on loads that paid no more than $1.60 per mile gross, all inclusive.

I unloaded Mon AM in Ft. Worth and have turned down the only offers I got IN Texas that were paying only $.89 to $1.10 per mile to the truck.

I did this for Mon, Tue and Wed.

Wed eve I got a POTENTIAL offer for LTL from McAlester, OK and Springdale, AR. Two extra stops on the Springdale, two in NC with the final in Plainfield, NJ, the McAlester is the final final, backtracking to Rock Hall, MD.

For the 2095 miles, I get $3800 plus stops and FSC to the truck.

It pays to wait and be patient.
Yes, I spent 2 nights in a Super8 and sat still.
Patiently.

I refuse to haul cheap.

This time I refused to deadhead back to the Midwest out of Tejas.

I don't deliver the first until Tue and finals on Wed, but, at least I am busy over the Holiday weekend and am earning the money the truck deserves.

Bennigans' meals are not hard to digest with enough Patron to lubricate the gullet.

[Jack5]

Bennigans' meals are not hard to digest with enough Patron to lubricate the gullet.
_________________


You spent a little too much time in Texas. :rofl: I hope you at least tried On-the-border. 1.60 a mile for this area is not a bad rate. 1.10 a mile is COMPLETELY out of the question. :wtf: The sad case is that hundreds of loads a day actually get moved for that rate.

[The_Governor]

_________________


You spent a little too much time in Texas. :rofl: I hope you at least tried On-the-border.


I'd eat at Pancho's before I'd eat the slop On The Border throws down.

A blind Chinaman knows more about Tex-Mex than they do.

[the_wolf]

Im not hanging up the keys-- im adding more trucks actually :D

[mackman]

JB Hunt took my job last week. My company just laid off three owner operators including me. They also laid off their 4 drivers, of average 10 years. They said that JB Hunt was going to take over dispatch, use their own trucks, and that we (owner operators) would get the overages. There will never be overages as long as JB hunt has 50 million trucks. We were local, 400 mile radius on average and home every night hauling 2000 lb loads, lol. So the ol dog will be in the dog house until i find another local gig. I will never go "over the road."

[Big_Dave]

Mackman.......The company I work for used to haul a lot of Del Monte out of Sleepy Eye MN going to Rochelle IL (and other places).

We lost that to Transplace early this spring.

If I'm not mistaken, JB is part of Transplace in a big way.

[roadranger]

There will never be overages as long as JB hunt has 50 million trucks.
I live a couple miles from one of JB's biggest dedicated accounts (Staples in Dayville CT) and they have a nearby carrier pull their overages all the time. JB almost always has openings on that account. Strange thing is that the other carrier pays less than JB!
:yikes:

[mackman]

I was the carrier for that company. I set my own rate. They did not have much work as it was. Now that they have two more extra trucks than they had before, it's a wrap. JB Hunt told me that they couldn't guarantee that I would be home every nignt. In fact they said that I would be out for atleast three days if i worked for them. It's no biggy. Things are slow, but there is still a lot of work out here if you aren't too picky.

[Big_Dave]

Things are slow, but there is still a lot of work out here if you aren't too picky.
What's considered 'too picky'?

Whatever rate you haul for may not work for me.

Remember, as an O/O, you HAVE TO take into account monies for maintenance, insurance, fuel, income taxes, etc..........AND still be able to pay yourself a decent wage.

$1.20 a mile (gross, NOT COUNTING FSC) doesn't cut it anymore.

[Jack5]

$1.20 a mile (gross, NOT COUNTING FSC) doesn't cut it anymore




You are right,it doesn't.,yet there are still hundreds of morons who are hauling for even less than that.Either that or all the bigger companies are undercutting and booking all these cheap loads to weed out the competition. The only way to pay yourself a decent wage while owning and operating a truck and trailer is to either specialize in something or find a certain niche or a few customers that have freight that is in high demand. I once talked to an O/O that claimed to be netting six figures a year while running for 1.25 a mile total with the fsc included. :rofl:

[SUNSHINE]

$1.20 a mile (gross, NOT COUNTING FSC) doesn't cut it anymore




You are right,it doesn't.,yet there are still hundreds of morons who are hauling for even less than that.Either that or all the bigger companies are undercutting and booking all these cheap loads to weed out the competition. The only way to pay yourself a decent wage while owning and operating a truck and trailer is to either specialize in something or find a certain niche or a few customers that have freight that is in high demand. I once talked to an O/O that claimed to be netting six figures a year while running for 1.25 a mile total with the fsc included. :rofl:


First of all guys, I am getting tired of all the put downs and nasty
remarks about hauling cheap loads :angry: :wtf: I hear all this
stuff about $2 a mile freight or better and I have yet to see it
out here. The reason why JB and the rest can bid cheap is b/c
they have the equipment and manpower to move it more cheaply
than an O/O.Do the math!

Look at the area you live in. I live up here in Maine and let me
tell ya IT SUCKS. We have 4 major trucking companies and our
freight choices are bottled water and they want you to haul 46,000lbs :yikes: and the majority of it goes to Brooklyn, Long
Island and NJ :yikes: Rolled paper and this is starting to get
scarce with all the paper mills going out of business. I do Old Town
Canoe but some of these other companies and have come in
and under bid but OTC comes back to where I am leased onto
b/c of customer service and some of us aren't scared to cross the
Mississippi and go to the Left Coast. I'm sure there is some
more freight up here but this is the majority.

Yes, I could find another company to lease onto.Which means
I'd have to train a new dispatcher, change all the lettering on
my truck, be a # when I call in instead of hearing Morn'n Melanie

Chances are I would have to sell my home and relocate and not
be close to my mom, she;s 68 and her health is starting fail, my kid
sister and my daughters.

I knew when I made the decision to become an O/O I wasn't gonna
be rich and retire at an early age. Basically, I created myself a job
and a living wage. So I don't have a lot of fancy play toys and take
expensive vactions, big deal. Some weeks I do ok and eveything is
good and some weeks I don't know why I even bother :wtf: :wacko:

So the next time you guys want to put others down to make youself
look better, walk in their shoes for a few miles.

[Jack5]

$1.20 a mile (gross, NOT COUNTING FSC) doesn't cut it anymore




You are right,it doesn't.,yet there are still hundreds of morons who are hauling for even less than that.Either that or all the bigger companies are undercutting and booking all these cheap loads to weed out the competition. The only way to pay yourself a decent wage while owning and operating a truck and trailer is to either specialize in something or find a certain niche or a few customers that have freight that is in high demand. I once talked to an O/O that claimed to be netting six figures a year while running for 1.25 a mile total with the fsc included. :rofl:


First of all guys, I am getting tired of all the put downs and nasty
remarks about hauling cheap loads :angry: :wtf: I hear all this
stuff about $2 a mile freight or better and I have yet to see it
out here. The reason why JB and the rest can bid cheap is b/c
they have the equipment and manpower to move it more cheaply
than an O/O.Do the math!

Look at the area you live in. I live up here in Maine and let me
tell ya IT SUCKS. We have 4 major trucking companies and our
freight choices are bottled water and they want you to haul 46,000lbs :yikes: and the majority of it goes to Brooklyn, Long
Island and NJ :yikes: Rolled paper and this is starting to get
scarce with all the paper mills going out of business. I do Old Town
Canoe but some of these other companies and have come in
and under bid but OTC comes back to where I am leased onto
b/c of customer service and some of us aren't scared to cross the
Mississippi and go to the Left Coast. I'm sure there is some
more freight up here but this is the majority.

Yes, I could find another company to lease onto.Which means
I'd have to train a new dispatcher, change all the lettering on
my truck, be a # when I call in instead of hearing Morn'n Melanie

Chances are I would have to sell my home and relocate and not
be close to my mom, she;s 68 and her health is starting fail, my kid
sister and my daughters.

I knew when I made the decision to become an O/O I wasn't gonna
be rich and retire at an early age. Basically, I created myself a job
and a living wage. So I don't have a lot of fancy play toys and take
expensive vactions, big deal. Some weeks I do ok and eveything is
good and some weeks I don't know why I even bother :wtf: :wacko:

So the next time you guys want to put others down to make youself
look better, walk in their shoes for a few miles.


There is freight out there paying 2.00 a mile or better. Yesterday I saw several loads on ITS paying between 2.50 and 3.00 a mile. They are not always easy to find or sitting nearby,but they are out there.There is a difference between running cheap and hauling the occasional cheap freight. The only way to get around the cheap stuff is to either deadhead or put LTLs together which sometimes comes out to the same thing when you figure in the time and unpaid miles. Sometimes it is worth it though.
There are some O/Os out there that are flatout running cheap and averaging only 1.25 a mile or even less and than wonder why they are going broke. :wtf: With operating costs being over 1.00 a mile I don't see how any O/O averaging 1.25 a mile can survive or let alone net six figures. :rofl: It simply isn't worth it.

[mackman]

Im 22 and have owned my company for over four years now but as my dad would say, im still wet behind the ears. Im going to give my two cents anyway. I didn't lease on with a company when I first started and i still haven't to this day. I went out and started knocking on doors offering my services to different companies. I gave them my rate and either they say yea or nay. For the past few years i have hauled a companies 2000 lb loads with their trailers for 1.80 a mile round trip. That equalled 3.60 a mile for ALL miles plus tolls, with a minimum of 300 miles a day and another rate for short hauls. I was home daily. The only reason i am not there now is because they did not want to deal with dispatch anymore-they've had some loosers. JB Hunt took over dispatch and are using their own trucks. They couldn't under bid me, they just offered something else we owner ops couldn't-dispatch. Since I wrote the first post I have found atleast 3 other local companies who have accepted my rates.

I don't know how it is when you are leased, but I set my rate and stick to it. Im picky to the point where i will not haul trash, oversized loads, hazmat, or loads grossing over 25,000 and i will not be out overnight. There is work out here and there are companies willing to pay out the .ss to move their goods.

I could probably make it out here for 1.25 if I lived in the truck and the wheels never stopped turning, but that's not going to happen.

[David_Reed]

Im 22 "and" For the past few years i have hauled a companies 2000 lb loads with their trailers for 1.80 a mile round trip. That equalled 3.60 a mile for ALL miles

Please redo the math on this for me.
$1.80 loaded, then what?
How do you get $3.60.

this is easy son, just show me the formula.

[David_Reed]

Im 22 "and" For the past few years i have hauled a companies 2000 lb loads with their trailers for 1.80 a mile round trip. That equalled 3.60 a mile for ALL miles

Please redo the math on this for me.
$1.80 loaded, then what?
How do you get $3.60.

this is easy son, just show me the formula.

I'll make it even easier;

You got paid $1.80 for how many miles?
insert answer here;

You drove how many miles round trip?
insert answer here;

multiply answer #1 times $1.80 and
insert answer here;

divide total miles driven into the above answer and insert product here;

Show me the $3.60!!!!!

[mackman]

Mr. David Reed, when I drove from Strasburg Va to Norfolk Va and back to Strasburg Va, because i pulled their trailer and it had to be loaded again for the next day, i got paid for the miles i put on my truck. That run paid me a little over $840 dollars, i added $20 more if it was a flatbed load. I got paid for actual miles. It was about a 450 mile round trip give or take. I did that almost every day, i also went to Jersey and other places in the quad state area and was home every night.

round trip 1.80 going+1.80 coming back=3.60 a mile. Most guys consider their rate a one way thing. Since i went back to the same place everyday, i just doubled it. sorry if i confused you.

Did i calculate that wrong? If so, opps yall know what i ment.

When i picked up the trailer i would write my mileage down. When i pulled back in the yard from delivering my loads, i would subtract the mileage on my dash from the one I wrote down that morning and i would get my total mileage for the day. Then i would multiply that by 1.80.

[Jack5]

Mr. David Reed, I don't know if you are being smart, condescending or if i confused you, but I got paid 1.80 "a mile." When I drove from Strasburg Va to Norfolk Va and back to Strasburg Va, because i pulled their trailer and it had to be loaded again for the next day, i got paid for the miles i put on my truck. That run paid me a little over $820 dollars. I got paid for actual miles. It was about a 450 mile round trip give or take. I did that almost every day, i also went to Jersey and other places in the quad state area and was home every night.

round trip 1.80 going+1.80 coming back=3.60 a mile. Most guys consider their rate a one way thing. Since i went back to the same place everyday, i just doubled it. sorry if i confused you.

When i picked up the trailer i would write my mileage down. When i pulled back in the yard from delivering my loads, i would subtract the mileage on my dash from the one I wrote down that morning and i would get my total mileage for the day. Then i would multiply that by 1.80. There was no dead heading.



820.00 divided by 450.00 is 1.82. Still it is a good paying run since it is consistent. BTW Mackman,you have a P.M.

[Big_Dave]

round trip 1.80 going+1.80 coming back=3.60 a mile
No matter how you slice it, it's STILL only $1.80 per mile that the truck rolls.

You need a new calculator. ;)

[mackman]

ok ok, im a local guy. My buddy gets something around 1.50 a mile one way and deadheads back. That's why I doubled it. Sorry :classic:

[Big_Dave]

My buddy gets something around 1.50 a mile one way and deadheads back.
Are you saying that your buddy gets paid $1.50 a mile for the round trip and bounces back home? I hope you are.

If not, your buddy's a fool. That only works out to be "something around" .75 cents a mile. :wow: Even Swift pays their gullible Lease/Purchase Scam signers better than that. :wow:

With fuel hovering around $3.00 a gallon, and say for example, he's getting 5 mpg.......well that's .60 cpm JUST FOR FUEL! How's he keeping current on taxes, maintenance, etc..........and still be able to pay himself? :wow: :wacko:

Now if you tell me that his FSC...............nope, I ain't going there.

[mackman]

Well you only pay taxes on what you profit. He is regional. Unless he finds a backhaul he is screwed and im sure he isn't getting paid as much for the backhaul. But like i said, im local and i start and stop at the same place everyday which is 5 min from my house. I thought yall OTR guys were getting a dollar something one way. I didn't know that you were getting paid for driving back empty or dead heading.

Hey, i said i was a newbie :p. i'll admit when i am wrong. And i was wrong :hehe: .




820.00 divided by 450.00 is 1.82. Still it is a good paying run since it is consistent. BTW Mackman,you have a P.M.

Like i said the miles were just estimates. I don't remember how many exact miles it is off the top of my head. With all my added things like unloading and unstrapping, I guess it would all equal out to around 1.85-1.9 or so depending on how many stops i had on the trailer. Besides, it was just foam in a dry van or flatbed.

Anyway, we have established that things are somewhat slow right now. Any predictions on when and if they will pick up to where they were?

[accremonious]

QUOTE: Anyway, we have established that things are somewhat slow right now. Any predictions on when and if they will pick up to where they were?
UNQUOTE:

This is typical for the business cycle. It will likely continue until the uncertainty of who the next resident(s) of the White House are known and their policies become implemented. Businessmen do not like surprises, hence the slogan for the Holiday Inns! And when drivers are out over the road it maybe expensive but there normally are no surprises at the Flying Hook's!

Remember back when Bill Clinton came into office? Regardless of the optics and your politics, his policies got everybody back to work and the economy humming, plus the Government experienced funding surpluses! Today the retired Chairman of the Federal Reserve is criticizing the deficit spending of this current administration. If you reduce taxation, and increase spending then it has to come from borrowing more. Who loans the Government the money? Well it has to come from those companies and individuals willing to buy the bonds and treasury notes floated by the Government. Your children and grandchildren have to pay this back in taxation later! If all Government loans were payed back then investors would have to look for less stable and safe places to invest than the Government!
Also the cost of the Iraq and Afganistan police actions are another unknown cost. These mismanaged adventures are hurting the economy in many ways.
Another case is the misfortunate handling of the mortgage situation. By making low cost NO DOWN PAYMENT mortgages available at rates which are unsustainable over time, it allowed unqualified people to sign up for houses which will later be quit claimed and repossessed by those who have money to be rented out until the economy improves and they can again be sold. This is a very cynical analysis but when people make emotional decisions to buy but fail to make logical calculations regards future income, insurance, repayments and future interest rates, they get hurt and so do a lot of other people.
There are too many variables right now to predict when the situation will improve.
It is sad but when the American people elected Bush, they ignored the failed savings and loan history, and the failure to manage a ball team which could have and should have made it to play in the World Series!
Given the choice, who would you vote for between Ted Turner and George Bush based on track record? That is a no brainer but the available choice was not Turner and the rest is history and now payback! Would Kerry have been better, we will never know now.

[LSMR]

[quote=mackman]Mr. David Reed, I don't know if you are being smart, condescending or if i confused you, but I got paid 1.80 "a mile." When I drove from Strasburg Va to Norfolk Va and back to Strasburg Va, because i pulled their trailer and it had to be loaded again for the next day, i got paid for the miles i put on my truck. That run paid me a little over $820 dollars. I got paid for actual miles. It was about a 450 mile round trip give or take. I did that almost every day, i also went to Jersey and other places in the quad state area and was home every night.

round trip 1.80 going+1.80 coming back=3.60 a mile. Most guys consider their rate a one way thing. Since i went back to the same place everyday, i just doubled it. sorry if i confused you.

When i picked up the trailer i would write my mileage down. When i pulled back in the yard from delivering my loads, i would subtract the mileage on my dash from the one I wrote down that morning and i would get my total mileage for the day. Then i would multiply that by 1.80. There was no dead heading.



820.00 divided by 450.00 is 1.82. Still it is a good paying run since it is consistent. BTW Mackman,you have a P.M.


Steady local home everyday run that pays 1.82 per mile sounds ok to me.Plus you probably don't have a brand new truck for that sort of work so you save on the truck payment.

Good for you mackman :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

A word of advice to you.Don't bother sharing what you make on these trucking boards.You'll get one of two comments-1)are you nuts is that all or 2) you're lying.no one makes that much.
If you're paying your bills and moving ahead plus you're happy with what you're doing then be content.

[mackman]

hahaha, yea you are right. I don't work for that company anymore so i didn't mind sharing what I made. That was my rate in July when I was paying less than 2.90 for fuel and getting 8mpgs. If people ask me what I make now, I just laugh and say, "enough." :p

[Mark-the-Spark]

With operating costs being over 1.00 a mile ....
Well, there's your problem right there. Someone who is running a 'tight ship' will have an operating cost of about 75 CPM. Someone who is padding their overhead with exhorbitant costs or poor buying decisions simply doesn't know how to run a business.

[Acorn Trucking]

With operating costs being over 1.00 a mile ....
Well, there's your problem right there. Someone who is running a 'tight ship' will have an operating cost of about 75 CPM. Someone who is padding their overhead with exhorbitant costs or poor buying decisions simply doesn't know how to run a business.

Part of the cost of operation should include the drivers wage. Now if you can operate at .75 cpm and pay yourself well that is great. Personally just to run my truck 100.000 miles per year costs at least .64 cpm without paying myself anything. I am sure I am forgetting some costs as I sit here right now figuring this. And if I have to resort to living on 11 CPM than I will go to work flippin burgers somewhere and be home everyday.

Just my humble opinion.

[Big_Dave]

The other day, I was outside the dispatch window and heard my operations manager ask my dispatcher if he should book a load for $1.16 a mile. :yikes: :wtf:

Granted, I didn't hear the details such as if it were to get a truck from where it was at to a better paying load, instead of bouncing, how many miles the load went or what the deal was.

I do know that I balked at the $1.16 a mile. :wacko:

What I do know is that, based on the percentage I get paid.......if that load were booked for me, it would've paid me .33 cpm. :wtf: :angry:

Dave don't work that cheap! :angry:

[Mark-the-Spark]

Part of the cost of operation should include the drivers wage.
Some people do figure it that way. I don't. If I had drivers on the payroll then I would. But I don't ;)

[Jack5]

With operating costs being over 1.00 a mile ....
Well, there's your problem right there. Someone who is running a 'tight ship' will have an operating cost of about 75 CPM. Someone who is padding their overhead with exhorbitant costs or poor buying decisions simply doesn't know how to run a business.

.75cpm? :rofl: I wish. You are probably not an independent and don't have the extra costs of owning and maintaining a trailer and cargo and liability insurance. Not to mention reefer fuel and the cost of meals on the road. Yes,I include that in my cpm too.

[McGee]

:wacko: ...Thank God...someone at last that does't pick and choose which cost to include on CPM....Folks just don't get it...if ya spend it while your working it is part of the CPM...ya can just arbitarily say 'Oh that doesn't count' or all the #'s are off.... :doh:

[Jack5]

The other day, I was outside the dispatch window and heard my operations manager ask my dispatcher if he should book a load for $1.16 a mile. :yikes: :wtf:

Granted, I didn't hear the details such as if it were to get a truck from where it was at to a better paying load, instead of bouncing, how many miles the load went or what the deal was.

I do know that I balked at the $1.16 a mile. :wacko:

What I do know is that, based on the percentage I get paid.......if that load were booked for me, it would've paid me .33 cpm. :wtf: :angry:

Dave don't work that cheap! :angry:




Sometimes you can make a good average on the turnaround with a 1.16 a mile load. The trick is to make sure that rates are high and trucks will be in demand in the area that load is going to. Some of the clowns that offer this junk around here think they are paying gold with that rate. :wtf: It takes a little work but if you look in the right places you CAN find an average-paying load for 1.40-60 a mile in a bad area. LTLs can be another way to get the rate up instead of having to deadhead out. Yesterday I went thru a lot of junk 1.10 loads before I found one going to a good area and was able to book another one coming back. TX in general is HORRIBLE when it comes to rates. :yikes:

[Jack5]

:wacko: ...Thank God...someone at last that does't pick and choose which cost to include on CPM....Folks just don't get it...if ya spend it while your working it is part of the CPM...ya can just arbitarily say 'Oh that doesn't count' or all the #'s are off.... :doh:


Maybe they have too many flying J buffet coupons. :rofl:

[Dice]

It is really sad so many think the president controls the economy or even dumb enough to think he controls the price of gasoline at the pumps!

Folks it is going to get worse before it gets better and the next president no matter what party they are from is going to get blamed for a tanking economy and will be a one term president.

Right now it appears we are headed for the Hillary president which is perfect to take the blame along with a Democrat controlled congress and senate that alot will be thrown out of office in 2012 replaced by a Republican majority and president again!

Wait and see! It is going to get worse!

[Mark-the-Spark]

:wacko: ...Thank God...someone at last that does't pick and choose which cost to include on CPM....Folks just don't get it...if ya spend it while your working it is part of the CPM...ya can just arbitarily say 'Oh that doesn't count' or all the #'s are off.... :doh:
If you're running a business, then you should know how much money that business is effectively putting into your pocket. If you consider food, laundry, and a new collar for Fido as legitimate business expenses -- regardless of their deductibility with the IRS -- then you do not have a business, you have a hobby.

Every time this subject comes up, I get the distinct impression that most posters fall in the latter category.

[McGee]

Some people do figure it that way. I don't. If I had drivers on the payroll then I would. But I don't




:wacko: ...Thank God...someone at last that does't pick and choose which cost to include on CPM....Folks just don't get it...if ya spend it while your working it is part of the CPM...ya can just arbitarily say 'Oh that doesn't count' or all the #'s are off.... :doh:
If you're running a business, then you should know how much money that business is effectively putting into your pocket. If you consider food, laundry, and a new collar for Fido as legitimate business expenses -- regardless of their deductibility with the IRS -- then you do not have a business, you have a hobby.

Every time this subject comes up, I get the distinct impression that most posters fall in the latter category.



Sence the machine does not drive it's self....perhaps you have a
remote... :noclue:


Food, laundry and if Fido is an alarm than his collor is also deductable....I'm sure the folks that don't count this or that...are doing well with thier hobby.... :rofl: :rofl:

[Mark-the-Spark]

My point is that the hobbyists don't know how well they are doing since they do not know the difference between a 'perk' and a true business expense, which is why thier advice about operating costs should be discounted.

The businessman, however, keeps two sets of books -- one which he shows to the IRS, which includes all the 'perk' deductions and therefore minimizes his tax bill; and one which he uses to track his true costs -- showing what the company is really making (and does not include all the perks that the company is legally paying for on his personal behalf).

Many large corporations show no profit (on paper) and therefore pay no income tax. According to the logic of some here, they are therefore not making any money.

Go figure :p

[wesross]

It is really sad so many think the president controls the economy or even dumb enough to think he controls the price of gasoline at the pumps!

Folks it is going to get worse before it gets better and the next president no matter what party they are from is going to get blamed for a tanking economy and will be a one term president.

Right now it appears we are headed for the Hillary president which is perfect to take the blame along with a Democrat controlled congress and senate that alot will be thrown out of office in 2012 replaced by a Republican majority and president again!

Wait and see! It is going to get worse!

Sad but true.