A Subject Near and Dear to our Hearts...Radar

[Dave Sweetman]

Ok, now here comes the war stories. And they don't start out "Yall Ain't gonna believe this."

Probably one of the most or least favorite [depending on which side of the badge you're on] subjects of the highway is RADAR. I know over the years, I have [ahem] made more than a few donations to the local coffers when I was caught excedeing the posted. Most everyone, including the LEO's here, have some great radar stories. I shall share one of mine as follows.

The first ticket I ever got was in my 64 Ford Falcon, on August 14th, 1969. The reason I remember is I was driving to Woodstock, NY from Delaware with my then-girlfriend and 3 friends, Mike, John and Eric in the back. Loaded up with camping gear, food and other stuff we figured we needed, the old Falcon was not real quick on the uphill, but rolled down the other side pretty good. Even then, I respected truckers and although I kept my distance, I found a "front door" and rolled on up I-81 and east on RT 17 in NY

That went well for quite a ways until the front door hit his exit and I was left to fend for myself. The typical "are we there yet" questions were getting old, so rather than slow down, I kept making time, while my girlfriend, Lee, read the map. Down hill, running about 70, I saw a NY State trooper in his Sunoco Special hiding behind a bridge, but not before he saw me. BUSTED!

I did the right thing, stopped, shut off the engine and kept my hands on the wheel. The Trooper approached, told me he stopped me for speeding and asked for the reg and license. Small talk, as he asked me where we were going and we all told him in a chorus, "Woodstock Arts Festival." He then told us the roads were clogged, the NY Thruway was closed and it was futile to try and get there. I respectfully [honest] said that we had to make it as we had tickets and all this food and camping stuff and we had to find a way there.

The Trooper took my papers back to the patrol car, called in the info, I came up clean and he returned to my window with a NY map, a warning citation and some advice. The trooper then spread the map on my hood and showed me how to get to RT 17-B and some back roads not even on my other map and told me he knew that we could follow his directions to Yasgur's Farm and it would lead in behind the barn. I signed my warning ticket, thanked the Trooper for his giving me a break and especially for the road info. I got a lecture on keeping my speed down and he shook my hand and said "Have fun and be careful."

I followed the directions and just as he said, we came in behind the lake on the north west side of the Barn and hit a little traffic on the back road. I could see the stage about 200 yards away. Far Out!! My friends, Mike, John and Eric grabbed their camping stuff and bailed out, saying they'd catch us later. I never saw them again for the next 3 days. I literally parked about 100 feet from the back of the stage.

Another friend from my town had a big orange Air Force parachute and he trimmed out a tree and using it for a pole, made it into a huge tent at the edge of the woods at the bottom of the hill, where we slept at night.

My first time busted for speeding and I was cut a break, but even better, the Trooper helped us in more ways than he could imagine. We got to the festival, had an absolute blast and made memories that will last a lifetime.

3 months later I enlisted in the US Army for 3 years and "grew up." Well..Sort of.


Now...your turn for RADAR stories...next... :cool:

dave

[Big_Dave]

The last speeding ticket I got was for 79 in a 55 (about 8 years ago). :yikes:

My radar detector worked as it should :wtf: ...............it told me exactly when to pull over. :wow: :rofl:

The only break I got was that I didn't get 'cuffed & stuffed' on the spot.

A couple weeks later my son borrowed my radar detector and it slid off his dash and broke. Probably the best thing for it I guess.

I haven't had a speeding ticket since. :cool: :rofl:

[Jimbo]

I had my Rice Rocket up to about 140 once, and got hit with the radar. The State Trooper came up behind me, and pulled me over. (Yes, I was doing 140, and he came up on me like I was sitting still). I don't know what Troopers drive in other states, but Pennsylvania has some hopped-up Highway Cruisers. Maybe the saying "You can out-run the car, but you can't out-run the radio" is true in other states, but just don't depend on that in PA.

All I got was one heck of an earful, including..."..Do you know what happens to your CDL if I write this up? They will think you were doing 140 in a truck when you try to get a job in the future. You better slow that (self censored) bike down, and live a little longer".

Honest to GOD, I didn't get a ticket. Needless to say, I must have been lucky enough to catch this guy on a very good day. Sure, the Radar Gun told the Trooper exactly what speed I was doing, but he knew I was coming way before he saw me, or hit me with the radar. Maybe something I did while being pulled over let this guy know I respected him, even though he was about to ruin my day, and maybe that kept him from writing a ticket. Cops read people like other people read books, and I guess he knew I respected him, in spite of the situation. All I can say, is that I don't see myself ever having any bad thoughts about the Troopers in PA.

[MoonRunner]

My 2 most recent incidents involving radar are from the consumer side, not the operator. About 1 month ago my wife was driving my dodge pick up through town here where we live. I was in my office and get this frantic cell phone call from my wife who is crying. After I get through the questions of are you ok, are you hurt, etc, she tells me she is getting a ticket for speeding. I hit the roof and said "YOUR GETTING WHAT" she tells me again and I said give the officer the cell phone and let me talk to him. My wife informed me she was ordered to sit in the truck and wait. I told her to get out and give him the phone.

Here is the unfair part to most who read this, I introduce myself to the young new officer and ask if he knows me or knows who I am. He politely said, yes sir. I informed him that my wife did not need a ticket, my insurance certainly did not need to see a ticket, and I would appreciate him giving her license back and sending her on her way. He appologized and returned her documentation and let her off the hook. I saw my wife later and chewed on her for speeding, as much as I could, (she is my wife and I did not want to sleep in the garage) After all of this, I along with my wife were driving through town in my pick up the following Saturday after she was pulled over. I was enjoying my cup of coffee and a conversation as we drove down the road in a 30 mph zone. Me, the idiot, was not paying any attention to my speed and as luck would have it...a local law enforcement officer stepped out from the area that he was running stationary radar and motioned for me to stop. As he was pointing to me I looked at my speed and noticed that I was at 10 over and slowing. I pulled off the roadway, my wife was smiling...it was the same guy that stopped her. He recognized the name and again appologized for pulling me over. I was appologetic to him and said that I was wrong and that he is doing his job. I told him I deserve a ticket and to please do what he needed to do. He handed my license back and sent me on my way. I felt like crap. I deserved the ticket, I chewed my wife for the same thing, and I know better.

I guess to wrap this too long of a story up, I have always been a firm believer in giving people a chance. Most of us do not set out to speed but we do get pre occupied and fail to pay attention. It does not give you an excuse to speed but we all make mistakes.

[USAF_2T2]

Here is one for ya. I went to BLET (Basic Law Enforcement Training) in Davidson County, NC.

We had people hired by several agencies to include High Point Police. One of our PT instructors was from High Point and we didn't see eye to eye to say the least. I didn't like him and he thought I was not giving my all on the PT portion of training. During one of our PT sessions we were doing leg lifts and we were to have our feet at 6" above the ground. Mine were obviously not high enough as he was able to kick my ankles up and he told me "get em up." It took all I had to keep my bearing and press on.

Well guess who I pull over for 74 in a 55? Not him, but his wife. She had the Blue Line sticker on her van and a High Point address. I asked her if she knew **** ***** and she said that it was her husband. I asked if she had a cell phone and if she could call him so I could confirm it. (really wanted to just talk to him) It was him and I told him how I came across his number and why I asked for him to be called. I simply stated, "you know what I could have done, but I'm not like that, and you're welcome." He said thanks and apologized for everything and said that he did what he did to try and get the best out of us. I didn't buy it and let him go and let his wife drive off.

You never know when the actions of one day may come back and bite you or someone close to you in the azz.

[lonewolf]

i don't have any amusing little stories,but i would like to ask you guys a question,i have been pulled over many times in my 4 wheeler in ohio (yes i know i need to slow down) and have been let go without even a written warning due to the fact that i am a truckdriver,the last ticket i got,which i deserved,was in my home town,before the officer wrote out the ticket,he ask me if i was working as a truck driver at the time,which i wasn't,so i got the ticket,have any of you let a driver go due to the fact he has a cdl and he is in a 4 wheeler,all the officers that pulled me over stated they didn't want to ruin my driving record,which i'm glad they did,i'm glad they let me go,but i deserved the tickets,as i was speeding on each occasion,i'm not complaining,just asking

[Crystal Pistol]

So many come to mind ...

There's the night back in the mid '80s when I stopped a couple in a Vette going south at about 89 mph after which the brake lights lit up which resulted in a Reckless Driving ticket and one for the detector, about midnight, he was going to Myrtle beach SC, came from Syracuse NY. About two hours later, I stop a Porsche out on 64 at 88 mph after it too lit up the brakes, and the driver was a real a55, and I had to get the lady passenger out and search the car for the detector, and then he and I are in my car and he's raising hell, being a real "butt hole" ... and something about his license is awful familiar ... then I look back at my accumulation of tickets and there it was. He lived on the same street, in Syracuse as the other guy two hours earlier, except the house number was like 3 or 5 different. I asked if he knew the other guy when he stopped bit**ing long enough ... and he paused, and said ratyher whimsically "yeah, how do you know him?" at which point I showed him the other two tickets. He said "Far out dude!" and suddenly his whole mood changed, he was laughing as he signed his two tickets and talked of the fun he was going to have with his neighbor when vacation was over. What are the chances?
:yikes:

Then there was the day I stopped a tractor trailer and the Pinto following it at 79 mph , and the Pinto driver was a Sgt with another dept and she threw a fit, tried not to give me her OL but her ID instead, said this wasn't right, and etc ... and I wrote her her ticket and then after not letting me explain it, she signed it almost cutting the paper with the pen (I mentioned that the judge would like that), I gave her her copy and said to have a safe trip, and went back to my car in front of hers. Then ... she pulled up beside my car to ask where the court was (she was now in the traffic lane), I blew a gasket then I think. ... and the whole time this truck's driver sat patiently in my car and then when she was gone, he could tell I wasa bit "tight" and he sort of stayed quiet while I made a few notes on that ticket ... then he handed me his stuff and I asked if heard much of that stop ... and he said "no, not much", but he knew it must have been good. I said "That was a police officer. Can you believe it? A seargent at that!" ... then I gave him his stuff and said "Be careful". He said his wife would never beilieve it, that she was sitting in the truck already mad at him for getting stopped... so I offered to write a ticket if he thought it would help, to which he replied "No, I'll struggle through it".
She made a complaint, and when investigated, her 21 year old son was interviewed (passenger in her car), he told the investigator how ashamed he was of his mother, he couldn't believe how she acted. She came to court too, the judge was about as impressed with her as I was.
:rofl:

There was this other one that was driving a small sports car at like 97 mph in the wee morning hours, it was dark, and when stopped, I found it to be a lone female, height was like 5'4"' or near abouts, judging from what I could see, I guessed her weight at 105 on the summons. That night, she was very polite.
She came to court, her defense was that she thought I stopped her because she was black, and then as if to show proof that the ticket was in error, she sasid the weight was wrong, she said she weighed 150 and that since I wrote 105, maybe I was dixlexic (spl) as well and she wondered if she wasn't only doing 79. She was cute enough, but there was more there than was appearant that night as she sat in that small sports car. The judge looked at me and asked with a grin, if I could explain the discrepancy. I leaned back a little and took a glance at her backside, and told the judge that I had just guessed her weight based on what I saw that night. The judge grinned, the courtroom burst out in laughter, she just got really quiet then... Guilty.
:rofl:

Then there was this truck driver ... I met him at the river one day, he NB, I was SB, and he was running 88 mph steady as a rock, I could see him (and hear him) talking on the CB, he never looked over my way. So I go to where I can cross over, go back, and get him stopped. I walk up and tell him "what's up" after getting his stuff, and he says "No way". I asked why he said that, that he and I and the good Lord above all knew it was true, and he said there was no way I checked him with radar. He wasn't denying the speed, just was sure I didn't use radar.
I now suspected a radar detector, and so I told him that he just as much as admitted to using one and he threw a fit and said yeah he was, that that was how he "knew" I was lying. :cool:
Well, he brought the detector out with him when I told him to ... and we went back to my car and as I looked at what he had, I started to laugh. He didn't see nothing funny. :angry:
He had a radar jammer and radar detector and VG-2 detector (it's a radar detector detector detector, was called a falcon or something like that). Well, on this day I did have a VG-2 (a radar detector detector) also on the dash. He had the three things wired so that normally, the radar detector was on detecting, and the VG-2 detector on, and the was wired from his radar detector. What happened, and I showed it to him in my car ... was when he was going down the road and if I had used just the radar, he would have gotten a normal alert from it and the jammer would have come on (not so sure them things work, but they too are illegal), and he would have known I was there.
But this day, because of how he wired them together, when the "falcon" (the radar detector detector detector) sniffed out my VG-2 (radar detecteor detector), it sounded one short beep, and promptly shut down his radar detector so that I couldn't detect it ... but it also meant he couldn't detect my radar ... and since it was shut down, it killed the jammer right along with it. :wtf:
He started laughing then ... wrote a really nice letter to the judge complimenting me even, really, he did. Had a PPL lawyer there just to pay the fines, he never came back himself. Lawyer told me after the case was over out at the pay window that the guy sold the setup at a truck stop the day I stopped him he was so disgusted with it.
;)

[Bikerboy]

Only been stopped once for speeding. 117 km/h in a 90 zone. I usually always run 20 km/h over limit and never get stopped, but this day i got a little over the 20 over.
I was in my ford f-150, i only bought it like the week before. Never been stopped for speeding ever before this.

The craziest thing was, me and a friend were both driving, my friend always drives fast, I don't like to speed, so i wanted to run front door. So i was just cruising at 110 km/h then i see a car pull onto shoulder, then i see it's a cruiser, so i pulled over right away, before cruiser even turned on lights. I guess my speed got a little high.

I had no open beers in my vehicle, my friend had 4 or 5 open in his. And i get pulled over!!!!!


Cop checks my licence, sees i got clean record, and asks if I'm a truck driver, i said yes. So he lets me go. I was glad. I would of had to go to court and fight it if i got a ticket. I was only 7 km'h over the regular travelled speed. Cuz in ontario cops almost never ticket for less than 20 km/h over limit out on country roads.


Been pulled over about 6 times since then, suspected drunk driving!! LOL

Once i even did a breathalyser, i told cops i had 1 beer over 2 hours before, they didn't beleive me! I blew a zero! So haha to them for not beleiving me! i would never risk losing my licence over drinking. The next weekend same thing happened, got pulled again for drunk driving, only had 1 beer that night too, almost did breath test again. Then i told them how i did one the week before and blew zero, finally they just let me go.

It is so funny how often i get stopped, i almost expect to get stopped every weekend now! What a waste of time for the cops. I know lots of people who drive drunk all the time, and never get stopped, then i always drive sober and get stopped way more than all my drunk friends.

I never drive drunk, but since i got my 4x4 F-150, all the cops always pull me over and harrass me!
4x4 trucks must be cop magnets! Or maybe there all jealous of how awesome it looks! ha

[Timothy J. Begle]

I remember what I pulled on my buddy a few years back.

It was in late 85 and I had some work done on my big truck. I picked it up at the truck dealer and headed down the road to drop the trailer at a buddy's truck yard. Dropped it and headed back up to the I

Hopped on I-64 and headed to the next exit for the house. A west bounder yammered that there was a cop sitting on top at the 63.
Me thinks maybe my buddy?

So I picked up the CB and shooted. 'Rookie that you?'
He replies back, "YUP".

Told him I was about to come over the hill and asked if he would check my speed since I just had the truck worked on.

Me being me back in those days floor it!
Radar detector lights up (yes I ran them back in those days), then goes off, lights up, goes off, then comes on and stays on.
On the radio comes Rookie's voice, uuuhhhh hmmmm you'll pay!
Me acting dumb. (That's easy)
WHY?
91mph bubba! (His nick name for me.)
I think they didn't fix it right!

He holds mic down doesn't say anything for a few seconds but i hear laughing
....

...

Oh by the way. There's a State unit sitting here talking to me! :yikes:

OOOOPPPS!

Don't worry bubba he's laughing at me because of the look I had when the 91 came up! :wacko: :wow:

***********

Must remember to make sure your friends are alone before playing with them! :p


+++++++++++++++++++

[Deputy Dogg]

I had a simular experience a couple of weeks ago. I drive a "stealth" patrol car( No light bar) and was traveling from the east side of county to the west side of the county to assist on a foot chase at 3am ( I have a K-9 partner). I passed a SP car sitting in the medium running radar at about 100mph, I didn't seem him right away,but after I saw him "light em up" I flashed my emergency lights on. I meet with him a while later for coffee and he told me that I Scared the s___ out of him because he was dosing off a little with his unit set at 80mph. :harhar:

[ATCO]

ugggh

The one and only speeding ticket I've gotten was when I was going down an non-posted road - which in the state of California is 55...

I was coming down an incline from the off ramp when I looked down at my speedo, and was doing 90... I was in a mini-van, and not used to it's computer averaging the speed, so when I let off the gas to slow it down, like I normally do with my truck, it kept going roughly the same speed and only GRADUALLY slowed down...

I had a friend with me, and made a wise crack, that I was doing 90, and slowing down, but glad there wasn't a cop around...

About then in the oncoming traffic a see a CHP motorcycle cop... I realize there is no way I'm doing close to 55 based on how this thing was slowing down and watched the rearview mirror... sure enough the motorcycle turned around and indicated for me to stop - which I did...

Did everything I was suppose to do, was very polite and cordial. Only problem was, that it was a LADY motorcyle cop... Arrrggg... Sorry fellas, but I don't see you being able to talk out of a ticket when dealing with a woman like that, it seems to me they have some type of point they have to make... I had a clean record, and still do...

I have no idea how fast I was going at the time she hit me with radar, it didn't matter, I knew I wasn't doing 55... I just hoped she didn't hit me going 90... It's been sometime now, but I think she put down 70 in a 55...

I went to court, pleaded guilty and because of my demeanor and history the judge was lenient, reduced the fine and offered me traffic school - to keep it off my record... I gladly accepted, paid my fine, and even felt good enough that I gave another guy paying his fine $5 so he could pay it all then (He didn't have enough with him)...

In retrospect tt kinda sucks, I realized I was speeding, reduced my speed in the manor I felt was the safest - by letting off the gas... Had a clean record - no stops what so ever. Was very polite (Usually am anyways regardless), yet I still got the ticket - which I deserved, I was guilty of speeding. that has been over 6 years ago, been driving for 7 years (I'm 23). hmmm...

Learning experience: Respect the speed limit... get family or friends into law enforcement ;)

[MoonRunner]

Deputy Dogg that is funny and has happened to me in the past. :chase:

[Arresting_Quack]

I hit the roof and said "YOUR GETTING WHAT" she tells me again and I said give the officer the cell phone and let me talk to him. My wife informed me she was ordered to sit in the truck and wait. I told her to get out and give him the phone.

Here is the unfair part to most who read this, I introduce myself to the young new officer and ask if he knows me or knows who I am. He politely said, yes sir. I informed him that my wife did not need a ticket, my insurance certainly did not need to see a ticket, and I would appreciate him giving her license back and sending her on her way. He appologized and returned her documentation and let her off the hook. I saw my wife later and chewed on her for speeding, as much as I could, (she is my wife and I did not want to sleep in the garage)

What is the “Government”? We hear it all of the time. “The Government needs to do something.” “It’s the Government’s fault.” “The Government has too much red tape.”

Perhaps I am reading too much into the post, perhaps I’m not. However, I find the post to contain ethical issues that could result in a government employee being terminated.

Personally I find it appalling that a government official would utilize his/her position to persuade another government official from doing their job.

We’ve all seen the special reports where off-duty police officers are followed by reporters and filmed breaking the very laws they are sworn to up-hold. The post further damages the public’s opinion of the “Good Ol Boys” network where some government officials consider their self to be above the law.

On a personal note I am prohibited from showing my credentials except for official business. Official business does not include routine traffic stops. If it was discovered I tried to use my position to elude a speeding or other moving violation I could be terminated for a violation of ethics.

I appreciate the work performed by LEO’s however, while confession is good for the soul broadcasting use of one’s position to direct the outcome of a traffic stop is not welcome.

The situation causes concern as one officer directed a traffic stop without knowing the traffic condition at the time of the stop.

My wife informed me she was ordered to sit in the truck and wait. I told her to get out and give him the phone.

Very disturbing.

This post is not meant as an attack, just pointing out some observations made on a post in a public forum.

Be safe.

[Crystal Pistol]

Arresting_Quack .....



..... How can I say it?




:cheers:




Yeah, that works. :cool:

I was only ever stopped once... for speeding.
I was 19, and had just found out I was pregnant. (I was with my -now- ex-husband at the time), he was 19 too.
His cousin was with us 9he was 26), and we had a case of beer in the back seat and some wine coolers.

I was having trouble with my car, it didn't like to accelorate, so I had to floor it as I came into a higher speed zone, so I could get up to speed. Once it caught though, it really caught, and I ended up at 65 in a 55. So I let off the gas to slow it back down, since I don't like to speed. Suddenly I see a car behind me, right on my tail, and he's flashing his head lights at me.
Well, I said (outloud) I'm not going any faster! My ex turned around and said it was a cop, pull over. Well, I was scared to death having never been pulled over before.
Officer asked for my licence and insurance. Well, I couldn't find it!! So I politely asked him if I could get out of the car to see if it fell under the seat, as I had it earlier that day to turn on utilities at our new place.
He did let me do so, and I found my wallet under my seat. After I gave it to him, and he saw how old I was, he shined the light into the back seat and saw all the alchohol.
He asked if I had been drinking, and I told him no, I was pregnant.

After I explained about not realizing he was a cop and also about my car giving me problems.
I think he knew I was scared because he was really nice about it and let me go with a warning.

Turned out, that earlier that day, my ex had also gotten stopped, but he didn't get off with a warnijng, he had a ticket! :rofl:
He couldn't believe that I didn't get one too.

[MoonRunner]

Well I never said that I pulled out credentials but I did identify myself to the cop, one to another and asked him to give my wife a break. I would submit that this is far from being unethical. There is more to police work than just issuing citations. Some people need a ticket, others need just a warning...discretion seems to come to mind. If I am wrong then I guess I'm the bad apple in the bunch and I will just go sit in my corner. I dont think the police should be ticket writing machines with no compassion. I guess I have done this to long and I am not the new breed.

Thanks for your comments, I have learned not to be candid with my responses.

[allikat]

It has been proven that to accurately use a radar gun on a truck, it needs to be done from the front. If you try to zap a van body truck from even a slight angle to one side from the rear, then you are highly likely to get a distorted reading. The large, flat rear of the truck deflects the signal off to one side, some of that will bounce back off something else (possibly going in the other direction), and back off the truck again before it gets back to the radar gun.
Of course, if you use a laser, that's less likely to screw up...
This does NOT work for flatbeds, auto haulers, tanker yankers or anyone else who pulls a trailer with any kind of large, curved surface on the rear. It DOES work for van and reefer haulers.

[truckermanitoba]

here in canada they are legal to buy but if use in some places can get them confiscated and a fine for having on top of speeding.

[Crystal Pistol]

Ummmm , may I ask ... :wtf:
It has been proven that to accurately use a radar gun on a truck, it needs to be done from the front. If you try to zap a van body truck from even a slight angle to one side from the rear, then you are highly likely to get a distorted reading. The large, flat rear of the truck deflects the signal off to one side, some of that will bounce back off something else (possibly going in the other direction), and back off the truck again before it gets back to the radar gun.
Of course, if you use a laser, that's less likely to screw up...
This does NOT work for flatbeds, auto haulers, tanker yankers or anyone else who pulls a trailer with any kind of large, curved surface on the rear. It DOES work for van and reefer haulers.

... just where was it so proven and by whom?

It's not that I am disagreeing ...
... It's simply that in 27 years of working radar (even "back shooting" a lot of them), in the many thousands of resultant stops, in "I don't know how many" hours of instruction and recirtification and instructing ...
... that is the first time I have heard of "that proof".

It sounds much like a "road myth" ...
... much like the old "coil of copper wire wrapped around a flourescent light tube hung on the sun visors" to ward off eveil radar beams from the front, or "balls of tin foil" in the wheel covers to "confuse it".

:cool:

[Wrongway]

Radar is not infallable.
There are some "aspects" that require consideration during use.
Parallax error is one aspect as mentioned.
This error is generally small with common usage.
There's little to prevent radar from being fairly acurate from behind even a curved surface.
The curved surface might make the range of detection considerably less but the reading will be close.
If the radar were positioned so that it only "saw" the side of the trailer, there would be a parallax error with high error.
In most cases the radar also see's the back doors as the primary signal return because the trailer sides, at that point, are deflecting the signal into an unusable direction.

Laser radar is almost infallible.
Unlike radio radar, it has a very tight focal point from which it can gather speed / timing info.
It must be aimed towards a reflective spot on a single vehicle.
In general, the chosen primary reflective surface will be a license plate, a head or tail lamp reflector & other points on a vehicle with similar properties. But...a dirty back door can also be used as well albeit with less range.

No matter how good these devices are, it's primary purpose is a backup for the "trained officer" using it.
He / she's the one trained to detect speed when they see it.
They are the experts you are up against in court with the radar being a backup evidence.

[SteelCityNomad]

One that comes to mind Late night. early 80's, running south on I-77 down around the Fancy Gap (hadn't started over the hill yet). Pulling a Kentucy Bedbug Wagon with a Cabover KW.

Got that thing in the big hole and the cruise set at 90, listening to some tunes and just a gittin down the road for FLA.
VA Trooper lights me up from the median, and pulls out behind me as I start slowing it down and head for the shoulder.

Older Trooper comes to the door and asks that I grab my paerwork and such and we go back to his Cruiser. He takes my stuff and starts to go over it, then gets out this big ole book.

We are just chit-chatting, as he goes about his work and he stops what he's doing and says, "Tonights your lucky night" to which my mind is thinking "yeah right about 35 over, and caught dead to rights", so I just look at hiom with a puzzled look.

He says "yes sir, tonight your name goes in THE BOOK" Again the puzzled look, and he explains that he has kept a book of the names and license numbers of all the drivers he has ever stopped, and since my name wasn't there, tonight it goes there.

And he then went on to explain that tonight was my one and only break, and that if he ever stopped me again I would get everything he could throw at me.

To this day, I will not exceed the speed limit in that area, and I know by the age of that Trooper, that night long ago, that he is long retired, but for some reason I still get real legal through that streach of road.

And then theres the latest around 03:00, US-224 west of US-250 in OH, runnin west, a bit behind, and pushing it, I meet a Polar Bear coming east.
As he pops up over the rise, I dim the brights a bit late, and he lights me up, as he goes by my drivers door.
I pull on the fourways and start looking for a safe place to pull over(No shoulder really to speak of on this roadway), after about a mile and him riding behind me I see a spot and hit it.
Younger Trooper, comes up to the door and states "Driver theres two reasons I have pulled you over, do you know what they are?" I say "well I am pretty sure of one, speeding, but not the other"

He then tells me the other was for "failing to dim", and also says he had me at "75 in a 55". I just kinda smirk and tell him "we are kinda even on that second one, you pretty much blinded me when you hit them storbes" and then also said that " I was pushing it, but no way 75, I am a bit heavy to get going that fast on this road".
He says "well I have it on the display back there in the car if you would like to look" to which I just smiled and said "no, I believe you, but I just don't think I was going that fast"
And again he says "well I have it on the display if you would like to look", and I just tell him "I believe you, but the side of the road is not where to argue it"

So I give him my License, Trucks Registration, and Insurance Card and he heads back to his car.


After a bit he shows back up at the window, and asks "Driver you travel through Ohio much?", I tell him "Yeah I get through here pretty often, why?"
"Well I notice you have no violations on your record, and normally someone exceeding the speed as you were , well they have a few at least" I just smile and say "well I guess I have been lucky, and I still don't believe I was going that fast" (again I get the "I have it on the display") and he also tells me he had been clocking me by hitting the top of the trailer everytime I poped up over a rise, for the last mile as we approched each other
He then tells me, "well I am not going to be the one that writes that first ticket on your license" and he hands me a yellow "safety reminder" to sign.
It has pretty much the same information as a regular ticket, but it works like this. If you get caught doing any traffic violation in the County that the Safety Reminder is issued in for the next thirty days, you get BOTH Tickets.

He then starts another conversation, asking about the super singles I had on the drives, and I just kinda answer his question and jokingly interject that I was pushing it as I was running behind.

He just smiles and reminds me, "Late at night, out here on this lonely road, pickins get a little slim, so watch your speed the rest of the way accross" I thank him and take off.

[Crystal Pistol]

Wrongway:
Parallax error is one aspect as mentioned.

Nope, nothing to do with Traffic Doppler Radar. It does have something to do with a scope on my rifle at longer ranges.

Perhaps you are getting this "Parallax error" confused with something else you have heard talked about called "cosine angle effect", but it's not an error, it's an effect brought on when the radar is reading the reletive speed betwen itself and another object from an angle and not "straight on", and it always results in a reading less that true speed. If the angle is 10 degrees from being straight on, look up the cosine for 10 degrees and you'l see it's .984807753 ... which means that one will read the speed as 98.4807753 percent of true speed. A 100 mph truck checked from an angle of 10 degrees off to one side or fropm above, but at 10 degrees, will result in a radar reading of 98.4807753 mph but since the radar trunkates (drops) everything after the decimal ... the operator will see a sim[ple "98" displayed.

If the angle is dead on, or 0 (zero) degres, the cosine is 1.000000000 ... and true speed is read, at 90 degrees it's 0.000000000 ... and, well, you get the picture.

Now, since the radar transmits radio energy in a tight cone, unless one is traveling in an arc and maintaining a constant distance from the radar antenna ... but is instead goind straight across, only when at it's closest point does it travel at a real; 90 deprees to the antenna, where before that it's getting closer, and after that it is getting farther away.

It is much more common to actually shoot straight on, a vehicle approaching or going away due to curves where the angle may actually be 0 at some point, but eventually, it will increase in angle (unless the object strikes the radar antenna) as it passes to one side and there will be a slight dropping of the speed that accompanies this onset of abn anglular travel.

Suffice to say there is no such thing as "parallax error" (still not sure how you are attempting to aply that to radar)caused by the sides of a trailer, etc, because unless the radio signals (that are actually in the microwave spectrum, very high frequency) find thier way back to the radar antenna to be read for frequency shift due to having been reflected by an object posessing reletive movement between the radar and reflecting surface, there is nothing to read. It is the radar that sends out a radio signal at a known frequency and if it strikes an object with movement reletive to the antenna, any of that energy that bouces back and strikes the antenna will exhibit a frequency shift which is directly linked to speed of reletive movement. If it bouces off the side of the trailer and goes over across the roadway, the radar does not read it. It only reads that which finds it's way back, and it sends out a lot more that it needs to recieve as the vast majority of it doesn't come back. It's called "the doppler effect", it's the basis for doppler radar. It works.

Example of doppler effect ... you sit at a RR crossing, train comes towards yopu and souds whistle and as it approaches, it is high pitched but as it passes, pitch drops. It's making the same sound, but since each sucessive sound wave is transmitted, the scorce is moving towards you and the waves are bunched up as each has a short6er distance to travel to your ear. Result is you hear the bunched up waves as higher frequency, and as it passes, tone drops because now each sucessive sound wave has further to travel because while the sendingfbfrequency remains constant, each wave has further to travel due to movement, and you hear them with longer spaces between waves, for a lower frequency.

I could go on and on, but I am going to bed ...

[Dave Sweetman]

... much like the old "coil of copper wire wrapped around a flourescent light tube hung on the sun visors" to ward off eveil radar beams from the front, or "balls of tin foil" in the wheel covers to "confuse it".

:cool:

Now, you mean to tell me that all these years of letting the tinfoil get jiggy in my hubcaps, it's all a ruse? Aaaaw, man..all that money wasted on rolls of Alcoa... :p [jest kiddin']

But seriously, I have heard so many wive's tales over the years, surefire methods to beat the system, beat the radar, run your highbeams to defeat the lazer, this radar detector is the best, this jammer is the best, yadda yadda yadda...it's all ca-ca...except one.

If you really want to beat the radar blues, outwit Mr Smokey, outfox the courts...it's easy..Do Something That RESEMBLES the Speed Limit!! One of the constant reminders that I have found out [the hard way on occasion] is all the time you make by speeding is wasted by spending that very same amount of time on the roadside talking with the trooper, getting your 28's and 29's, signing here on the dotted line and getting the big lecture.

Even worse, all those guys you have been passing for the past several hours have now caught back up and will be happy to toot their horn, bust yer chops on the children's band and remind you that yer not only out $80+ as they go by. And you now resume your spot behind all of those "slower" trucks.

Ain't preaching here, just passing on what I've learned.
:cool: :cool:

dave

[SteelCityNomad]

...it's easy..Do Something That RESEMBLES the Speed Limit!!





Hmmmmm Sounds like another one of them thar trucker tales.......
:rofl: :harhar:

You are dead on the money, on that one Dave
:cheers:

[allikat]

Ummmm , may I ask ... :wtf:
It has been proven that to accurately use a radar gun on a truck, it needs to be done from the front. If you try to zap a van body truck from even a slight angle to one side from the rear, then you are highly likely to get a distorted reading. The large, flat rear of the truck deflects the signal off to one side, some of that will bounce back off something else (possibly going in the other direction), and back off the truck again before it gets back to the radar gun.
Of course, if you use a laser, that's less likely to screw up...
This does NOT work for flatbeds, auto haulers, tanker yankers or anyone else who pulls a trailer with any kind of large, curved surface on the rear. It DOES work for van and reefer haulers.

... just where was it so proven and by whom?

Experiments and real world proofs over here. It seems that it mainly affects automated systems, as a real cop with a radar gun can usually work out if he's getting a reading that's way out.
It's not that I am disagreeing ...
... It's simply that in 27 years of working radar (even "back shooting" a lot of them), in the many thousands of resultant stops, in "I don't know how many" hours of instruction and recirtification and instructing ...
... that is the first time I have heard of "that proof".

It sounds much like a "road myth" ...
... much like the old "coil of copper wire wrapped around a flourescent light tube hung on the sun visors" to ward off eveil radar beams from the front, or "balls of tin foil" in the wheel covers to "confuse it".

:cool:

[allikat]

Let us take this diagram as an example.
Cop
\
\
\ I
\ I
\I Back of trailer
/I
/ I
/
/
O- Tree


As you can see, the signal goes from the cop at the side of the road, hits the flat surface of the rear of the trailer, and is deflected off to the other side, where it impacts a tree, which returns sufficient signal back along the path to the radar gun, where it is registered with an in-accurate reading.
Replace the tree with a 4-wheeler headed the opposite way, and the distortion in the reading becomes even higher.
Like I said, this only affects trucks with flat rear ends when hit with radar from behind. The theory is, that much like the stealth plane, the signal is deflected away from the radar, and any return on that path gives a distorted return.
Hit the truck from the front, however, and the large number of various surfaces on the front will give a true reading. Hit a tarped load on a flat, and you get the same. Zap a reefer or van from directly behind, and the problem doesn't surface then either. It only works from an angle, and most when there is a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction to distort the signal twice.

[SteelCityNomad]

All you ever wanted to know about Cops Radar (http://copradar.com/preview/content.html)

Have fun folks :cheers:

[Crystal Pistol]

Experiments and real world proofs over here. It seems that it mainly affects automated systems, as a real cop with a radar gun can usually work out if he's getting a reading that's way out.
Nope, not part of any posts I made. I am guessing it was intended as a reply, but the way you posted it looks like it's part of my post.


Allikat:Let us take this diagram as an example.
Code:
Cop
\
\
\ I
\ I
\I Back of trailer
/I
/ I
/
/
O- Tree



As you can see, the signal goes from the cop at the side of the road, hits the flat surface of the rear of the trailer, and is deflected off to the other side, where it impacts a tree, which returns sufficient signal back along the path to the radar gun, where it is registered with an in-accurate reading.
Replace the tree with a 4-wheeler headed the opposite way, and the distortion in the reading becomes even higher.
Like I said, this only affects trucks with flat rear ends when hit with radar from behind. The theory is, that much like the stealth plane, the signal is deflected away from the radar, and any return on that path gives a distorted return.
Hit the truck from the front, however, and the large number of various surfaces on the front will give a true reading. Hit a tarped load on a flat, and you get the same. Zap a reefer or van from directly behind, and the problem doesn't surface then either. It only works from an angle, and most when there is a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction to distort the signal twice.

I see ... it's a "theory", that falls a bit short of "proof" in these parts. Interesting theory, but a theory none the less. :cool:

Interesting sight there SCN. Thanks for the link. :cool:

Later ................ :type:

[Wrongway]

The term "parallax error" is not new to radar.
In fact it is synonymous with your more scientifically descriptive term of "cosine angle effect".
In older microwave / radar text, the term is commonly used.
Despite the syntax de jour, the "effect" introduces error in the final display which must be accounted / compensated for during initial placement and / or final judgement.

The effect or error numbers you provided for 10' (or any) angle of incident are not set in stone but are further modified by the physical shape(s) from which the return echos are derived. ie. an irregular surface such as a curve or multi-faceted surface.

The horn on the radar gun is not that good a beam maker.
Yes it's directional but...the pattern is not very tight.
Nothing like that of a laser radar unit.

The radio radar unit's signal expands in azimuth & elevation very quickly as it travels further from the gun's aperture.
It's very much along the lines of a ever widening beam of light from a cheap flashlight.
This is why one must be carefull to make sure it's not clocking a reflection from a tree, building or road surface along with the target.
Hence the tree doing 60mph or the gaurdrail doing 35mph.

These are some of the reasons why microwave radars can be questioned in courts if someone were to have the time & resources to do it.
You can find the error, narrow it down to a couple mph & beat the ticket in some cases.

Most of the time the ticket is for more than the amount of the typical error so subtracting the possible error will still put you over the limit.
Once in awhile the error is so outstanding that it demands looking into.

As a note..Allikats pictorial depicts an excaggerated view of your cosine angle affect / parallax error.

[Crystal Pistol]

You are arguing things that might cause ghosts and other problems with doppler radar as used by an airport maybe, but much of your post has no practicle bearing on units we use. My Golden Eagle does not process and display the altitude and direction and speed of 16 incoming flights or of weather clouds and wind sheer.

the "effect" introduces error in the final display which must be accounted / compensated for during initial placement and / or final judgement.

My Golden Eagle transmits a bit of energy in the microwave frequency range, a very small portion actually ever finds it's way back to the antenna, and if it was reflected by a stationary object, or an object with no appearant movement in relation to the antenna, it's frequency is unaltered and read as "0". If it is reflected by an object pocessing relative movement to the antenna, it's frequency has been shifted slightly higher or lower, depending on direction of relative movement, and the shift in frequency is directly related to the speed of such relative movement in a vector in line between the object and the antenna horn.

You might be traveling at 100 mph, but because you are traveling at a 45 degree angle relative to the radar, the radar only sees a hair over 70% of that speed, or 70 mph. Because the radar does send and recieve in a cone, the actual angle as you cross the cone actually changes slightly (but at no time will the radar see anything greater than 100% true speed even if you are traveling directly towards the center of the antenna).

Even if the target is traveling in a direction as far as 15 degrees off straight on, I still read over 96% of true speed. If he's running 80, I read 76 or 77 ... so I give him 3 or 4 and write the 76 or 77 with a clear conscience in that he still got a break. The error is to his favor, not a problem as I see it. Most of my spots are more like 10 degrees when I release the hold, and getting greater as they get closer which means the reading falls a bit ... so what? I just accounted for it, have I not?

As long as I know that I am writing less than true speed 99+% of the time, and never for more than true speed, I'm content. If I read the target at 81 and write a reckless driving summons, I'm not going to worry that I didn't get the whole 85 he was likely running to generate that reading of 81.

The effect or error numbers you provided for 10' (or any) angle of incident are not set in stone but are further modified by the physical shape(s) from which the return echos are derived. ie. an irregular surface such as a curve or multi-faceted surface.

Also, while there are multiple return signals reflected, maybe by 5 seperate vehicles for example, the Golden Eagle will display the strongest, and when the "faster" button is pressed, will also display the fastest signal in a third "fastest" window until the point that the fastest also becomes the strongest in which case, it moves to the regular target display. There are other returns that are simply too weak, there are many that simplyy miss the radar antenna. Radio energy is reflected, refracted, absorbed, or it goes on indefinately appearing to weaken as the beam spreads.

The radar doesn't tell the operator which vehicle's speed is displayed, that is up to the operator to determine using his own powers of observation with a bit of experience and training applied. It's not all that difficult, and when there is doubt as to which vehicle is responsible for the reading, one just waits a moment, because another will be along any second.

It's really not so hard to pick and check the speed of a lone vehicle traveling at 75-80 or the vehicle traveling 10-15 faster than those around them which they are in the process of passing or overtaking as the officer watches. Officer sees vehicle, it looks fast, he makes a split second estimate of speed (easy with practice), release hold, mentally compare reading with estimate (simple enough) and if they corroborate each other ... ID enough about that vehicle to guarantee that it's the one stopped 2 miles later when he catches up, and ....

Well, it's bed time................. :zzz:

[SteelCityNomad]

CP
I have heard numerous times that when big trucks and fourwheelers are running close together that the Radar only picks up the larger object(In therory) and that some drivers have been ticketed for the faster speed of the fourwheeler because of LEO's saying this is why they pulled over the Big truck.(Mainly in OHIO BTW)

I never believed this to be true, but am wondering your take on this.

[Crystal Pistol]

SCN
CP
I have heard numerous times that when big trucks and fourwheelers are running close together that the Radar only picks up the larger object(In therory) and that some drivers have been ticketed for the faster speed of the fourwheeler because of LEO's saying this is why they pulled over the Big truck.(Mainly in OHIO BTW)

I never believed this to be true, but am wondering your take on this.

I can't say it doesn't happen, but I can say it isn't the way they are trained. Sometimes though, people hear what they want to hear and when I, myself, have sometimes taken time to ezplain (when asked) that the radar will display the strongest return signal in the target display, and that since a truck is larger and returning more signal than the car beside it, chances are good that the return signal displayed while they both are there, side by side in the beam, likey it's the trucks signal that gets displayed as long as it is "there".

It's the reason that many times, drivers have seen a car passing them at a higher speed, and at the same time met or passed a stationary bear, and wondered why the bear didn't get the car. It does lead one to think the car didn't have enough wheels if they don't know any better. If the truck was not speeding, and no reading is obtained on the car which was, then there is no radar evidence of a violation in that case.

Let's say though, that the truck is running 8 over, and the car at 15 over ... and it's my radar that they pass as the car is passing the truck and I don't get a reading on anything but the truck ... but it's obvious to me that that is the truck's reading and that the car is oobviously running more like 80 ... I would stop the car and charge him with the lower 8 over violation because he was the fastest one and at the very least, he was either running 8 over, or faster to pass one that was running 8 over. That was back when I had the Hawk and KR-10 or KR-11 more so than now with the Eagle which has an added feature called a "faster button" which allows me to cause the radar to process and display the "fastest" signal (speed) observed along with the default "strongest" signal (speed).

Aagain ... it's up to the operator to apply his /her observations and training to identify the violator vehicles. The radar is impartial, it just does what it does ... as it was programmed.

I hope I explained that clearly .... been a long week.

[SteelCityNomad]

CP,
Thank you for the reply, and yes it cleared it up for me.
:cheers: