Are you ready for the split?

[DrivingZiggy]

Is the AFL-CIO coming apart?

Four groups, including the Teamsters and SEIU, could quit the labor federation as soon as Monday

But why?in a disagreement over how to reverse organized labor's decades-long decline. But there's more!leaders have accused AFL-CIO President John Sweeney of putting more money into political campaigns at the expense of union organizing. But what percentage of Americans are we talking about?When the AFL-CIO formed in 1955, about 35 percent of American workers belonged to unions. Today, unions represent about 8 percent of the private-sector workforce. But they're not biased!The AFL-CIO has weighed in heavily behind Democrats in national politicsBut does this remind you of anything?Sweeney, who was president of the SEIU before becoming the federation's leader in 1995, said the federation's remaining 50-plus unions "will make major decisions about changing workers' lives this week, no matter what happens."

"It's a shame for working people that, before the first vote has been cast, four unions have decided that if they can't win, they won't show up for the game," Sweeney said in a written statement. You know, like the Democrats in Texas leaving the state in order to avoid their responsibility to vote on an issue? Or maybe the Democrats in DC filibustering to avoid their responsibility to vote for nominees?

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/25/news/economy/boycott/Read it all here.

[saddletramp]

No Zig, its not a matter of 4 labor organizations picking up their toys and going home, it is a matter of them taking the issue of doing what is best for their membership by eliminating the "overhead" , thereby freeing up the ability of Unions to do what is best for their memberships, organizing those who would like the respresentation of a labor organization to offer them better working conditions, and health and welfare benefits not available to them now.
Somehow, we have to get away from this addage that Unions are nothing but corrupt organizations, taking money from the members while doing nothing for them; except protecting the "lazy" worker; a term that too easily gets thrown about without much validity.

[DrivingZiggy]

Somehow, we have to get away from this addage that Unions are nothing but corrupt organizations, taking money from the members while doing nothing for them; except protecting the "lazy" worker; a term that too easily gets thrown about without much validity.This gives me an idea! Perhaps if they stop being that kind of organization, the reputation would go away.

[saddletramp]

Zig, perhaps you could give us some real proof of all this corruption you keep accusing the unions of having. Going to a dock where the worker is slow or has an attitude does not justify calling a union corrupt. Also, you may need to bring your thought process up to the present; we are not living in the fifties and sixties anymore when there was large amounts of mafia influence and yes, corruption. The feds came in with oversight of those affected labor organizations and the only "corruption" as you like to call it is found in the movies like "Hoffa" and such.
How do I know? Been there for 35 years now, and I do see what is on the other side of the fence! be glad to show you when you would like to be impartial about the subject! ;)

[DrivingZiggy]

Okay, how's this for corrupt:

I pay $75 for the union pukes to unload my trailer. 6 hours later, I go back to check on them and they're not even 1/4 done. So I unload it myself. That means that they took money for unloading the trailer and they didn't unload it. That's "stealing".

[saddletramp]

Sooo, I have to ask, did you go to the management and bring the issue to them? I can't believe those "union pukes" have control of the facility and have the mangement held hostage to where they cannot control their employees, even if the lumpers are outside contractors who are not employed by the facility.

I know that Safeway in Spokane will throw lumpers off the property if they are tieing up a driver longer than needed to unload a trailer. And the lumpers there are members of the Teamsters.

Okay, how's this for corrupt:

I pay $75 for the union pukes to unload my trailer. 6 hours later, I go back to check on them and they're not even 1/4 done. So I unload it myself. That means that they took money for unloading the trailer and they didn't unload it. That's "stealing".

I guess they saw you coming... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Curious to find out what place was this that took so long to unload your flatbed, and how you managed to unloaded yourself????

Did you use the union forklift?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Was it YOUR 75 dollars or the companies...lets tell the whole story...shall we? :yikes:

[saddletramp]

I will ask all who post here to refrain from the use of negative names when discussing other folks. We can all carry these discussions without the belittlement of others. ;)

Thanks everybody! :)

[Capt._Chaos]

I will ask all who post here to refrain from the use of negative names when discussing other folks. We can all carry these discussions without the belittlement of others. ;)

Thanks everybody! :)

I agree.

We are all entitled to our own opinions about anything, but there's no need to resort to name calling in terms of belittlement.

As Americans with the freedom to choose our own career paths, we should all choose wisely without "downing" those who choose to do things different.

I had been an Owner-Operator for quite awhile before I chose to sell my truck and take a different path, but I'm not going to do like someone else we know from other forums who claimed to be an Owner-operator before selling his truck and getting a Union job (for a short time) and then knocking anyone and everyone who enjoys what they do- such behavior is uncalled for.

I'm enjoying my new job, but as I mentioned, don't expect me to be knocking Owner-Operators. I will treat them with the same respect as given me.

As Saddletramp knows, I got to help out U.P.S. for awhile, and got acquainted with a LOT of their Union drivers, most every one of them being very helpful and treating me with the same respect they wanted in return.

In a nutshell, we don't want to see the TSU forums turn into a "Mud Slingin' Fest" that so many forums have turned into with all the Union/Non-Union bickering going on day after day. :angry: If a person doesn't believe in Unions, being an Owner-Operator, or a Company Driver, they should learn to keep their derogatory statements and name-calling to themselves.

I will ask all who post here to refrain from the use of negative names when discussing other folks. We can all carry these discussions without the belittlement of others. ;)

Thanks everybody! :)

Who are you talking to??? Did I miss a bellitlement somewhere? :wow: :freaked: :rofl:

[Capt._Chaos]

Okay, HBT, here's what Saddletramp was referring to:



I pay $75 for the union pukes to unload my trailer.

As I mentioned already, having an opinion & expressing them is one thing. Calling names with intent to belittle someone is not what we should be doing here.

Many of us in here (like myself) have met DZ, and know him as a great person. Like him & everyone else, we all do step over the line on occasion. If you see me doing it, I would have no problem being approached about it. If I see you do it, then I will not hesitate to say something.

I have to disagree, Jeff....He didnt say it about someone particilar, just about someone that unloaded his trailer...

Is this any different when someone in the political forum, may say something about some democrat puke, or a republican puke?

People get passionate when discussing politics, or religion, or in this case unions..Its to be expected, in a forum like this... :wow:

If I see you do it, then I will not hesitate to say something.

Oh.... you would? :p :p :harhar: :harhar: :harhar: :harhar: :p :p

[DrivingZiggy]

This was back before the flat bedding days.

No, I didn't bring it up to management. However, when the 2 people who were supposed to be unloading my trailer saw me come back in my "working" clothes and with gloves on and unloading the trailer myself, they actually began to thank me profusedly! How shameful is that? If somebody paid me to drive the truck and I was so incompetent that they had to take over and drive it themselves, I would be so ashamed that I'd have to find another career!

So I ragged on 'em for a while and the only admonishment I got was to try to talk more softly because everybody in the warehouse was union.

I guess it also goes to show that not a one of them in that warehouse had a ball in his sac.

But that's actually not an unusual tale. It has been that way at almost every union joint I've ever been to.

[steemer]

Well now...I've worked for quite a few union outfits and enjoyed them all more or less. I've worked for non-union trucking companies as well, never saw all these "lazy union-dudes, the only thing I noticed over the years is that the non-union outfits pay alot less, and spefically have reduced health benefits, most of which the employee has to pay some of the monthly premium's and a whole lot more deductable!!!! and Ziggy, we haven't even got to the issue of retirement benifits...Jeeze, I think finding union work should be the number one thing that a workin' person should do. I did...and what about "job security" :fishing:

[Magnolia]

Just like anything there are good and bad things to Union jobs.
The way the trucking industry is going today and how drivers are treated shows that if we had a Union protecting them things would change.
Drivers would be paid for EVERY mile they drive. Drivers would get paid when they have to sit and wait to pick up a load from place that gives you a 24 plus window of when the load will be ready.
And I know what I am going to hear if you don't like the way things are going find another company. But most of you know there are very few "GOOD" companies left out there.
I have worked for a place that claimed they didn't need a union because they had an open door policy(Wal-Mart) but when I had a problem my manager did nothing. I had to go to the District manager and threaten to quit to get what I was asking for.
Then I have worked for the post office which is Union and let me tell u the big shots know not to try to walk all over you. You are trained to do a job and when your job is done you can go home, not until its done , if its not done you work until its done but you get paid damn good for that over time.
Not all union workers are lazy , yeah some probally are but then you have just as many who are not union who are just as lazy.
If the people who are suppose to be unloading your truck aren't doing there job report them.
There have been places that were union and the guy unloading my husband truck was a real jerk he was cussing at my husband with my son right there cause my husband was late, he was late cause he had problems with the truck. The guy didn't care he was just mad.
I reported him to someone high up, and she called me 2-3 times to report what action was taken.
Sometimes it helps to report them sometimes it doesn't but if they start having enough people lodge a complaint against that same person or person's then maybe they will wake up and do something.
Be safe out there!
Have a good day! :)

[towstrap]

Well now...I've worked for quite a few union outfits and enjoyed them all more or less. I've worked for non-union trucking companies as well, never saw all these "lazy union-dudes, the only thing I noticed over the years is that the non-union outfits pay alot less, and spefically have reduced health benefits, most of which the employee has to pay some of the monthly premium's and a whole lot more deductable!!!! and Ziggy, we haven't even got to the issue of retirement benifits...Jeeze, I think finding union work should be the number one thing that a workin' person should do. I did...and what about "job security" :fishing:

When you talk about the good you have to remember the bad too.

Ya know the lay offs, the strikes when co-workers vote against something your for. Ask all the guys and gals from Preston, CFI, and many other companies about there benei's, pension and job security.

Not slamming just making sure EVERYTHING is out on the table.

Unions HAD their place and time and the leaders of unions allowed their cause to be manipulated and forced companies to close shop or move outa country due to un reasonable wages and expenses because of the union.

WHY does an employer owe you FREE anything? They hire you because of your ability to do a certain job and you get a paycheck for doing that job. That is all that is OWED you. An honest days pay for an honest days work, most of witch is not an honest days work.

And one last point, seniority, shew wee, sit back and accept the fact that because someone hired in before you they get a job or assignment, NOT because of skill. What a deal, Joe you been here longer so we'll give you this job, Johnny does it better and more efficiently but you get it cause you been here longer, makes sense to me. NOT!

I choose to work non-union 17+years, have worked union less than 2 years, Teamsters Local 89, Louisville, Ky. Its' not for me, no biggie, I'll still retire at 55 and all is good.

I just wish we could all get along.
:cheers:

[Magnolia]

WHY does an employer owe you FREE anything? They hire you because of your ability to do a certain job and you get a paycheck for doing that job. That is all that is OWED you. An honest days pay for an honest days work, most of witch is not an honest days work.





I don't think anybody was saying an employer owes you FREE anything.
Yes they hire you for your ability but a lot of companies do their best to get out of paying you whatever they can. Even workers who do their best.
You have some compaines who can offer their employee's a decent benfit package but if they do it will cut into their bottom line so why do it?
Then you have some who pass the majority of the cost for the benfits on to the employee.
Some union's do nothing but cause problems, but there are some who do their best to protect the rights of the employee but at the same time they work with the employer.

Let's take trucking we all know drivers do more then their fair share of work and some of which goes un-paid but it goes with the Territorie.
You get into trucking some come in blind and have no idea what they are getting into , some know up front. A lot not all Recruiters lie to you, so you can't believe a word they say, notice I said a lot not all! .......lol !
I have a problem with putting one group of people in one group and saying they are all bad. I have seen people say things about truckers and put them all down. My extended family use to do this, I told them straight out if you can't say something nice about truckers then keep your trap shut. Yes there are bad apples out there but most truckers are good honest working people.


You do have a valid point on this seniority thing, they do that in the trucking ind. drivers who have been there longer get a certain dedicated run first. And maybe it should be part of a factor but if you have a person lets say who has been there 10 yrs but never makes his/her deliver on time but you have a a driver who has been with the company for 4 yrs but is never late who should get the better run?
I say the one who makes his delivers on time.

[saddletramp]

Towstrap,

I would ask that we think real hard before blaming the unions as the reason companies are leaving the US for foreign lands. The cheap labor is one thing, but you may find that the enviromental laws and taxation beyond belief is the major reason that companies leave,besides the lure of cheap labor; like 2 dollars a day. Would you work for that?

One has to wonder why we always feel the need to look down on those who try to better themselves by finding better paying jobs (union or non union) or asking, not demanding, for better working conditions such as safe work areas, medical benefits, and retirement plans.

You state that unions "had" their place and time and the leaders of unions allowed their cause to be manipulated and forced companies to close shop,etc. Please tell us how you come to those conclusions.

"an honest days pay for an honest days work, most of which is not an honest days work". I believe we could find example of that statement everywhere in this country, not just in the union houses.

One other thing, I hope we can all get along too, only I haven't seen anything here to make me think we are not! Just a bunch of people expressing their feelings, to which we all have the right to do. I enjoy the ability to have a good willed debate about these issues with all of you and hope that we all can continue good positive discussions, along with a little bit of constuctive arguements that is good for the blood pressure in all of us! ;)

[steemer]

Magnolia, you are a smart women who speaks the truth because comes from the heart!!!
GOOD FOR YOU :) :) :) :)

[towstrap]

Magnolia, well put, you do see the light.

I will say though you hear quite a bit about free benei's and h/w.



saddletramp, I agree,

One other thing, I hope we can all get along too, only I haven't seen anything here to make me think we are not! Just a bunch of people expressing their feelings, to which we all have the right to do. I enjoy the ability to have a good willed debate about these issues with all of you and hope that we all can continue good positive discussions, along with a little bit of constuctive arguements that is good for the blood pressure in all of us! ;)


I do not for one second believe that the ONLY reason companies leave or shut down is wages and such, just that they are a contributing factor.

When I state "had" their place, don't they always say "power in numbers"? It is taking consolidation of companies now to maintain the numbers for teamsters.

No one, weather company or employee fears the threats of unions anymore, that came about with the goverment control to get rid of the "mafia" mentality. It used to be that folks would jump at the chance of a union repesentation, now they think out the facts and vote accordingly.

I for one think it truely hurt the unions. BA's across the nation are "in bed with the companies" now to ensure their pay check and those at the hall. They do not, compared to years gone by, give a hoot about their brothers anymore.

I have no ill will towards any man or woman wanting to better themselves in any way shape or form. I just wish that when the decisions they do make come back to haunt them, via layoff or job elimination they do not blame everyone under the sun for their problems i.e. creating a life style they can not maintain after union wages.

As I staed before, I tried it, it wasn't for me.

I have been fortunate to stay gainfully employed making good money and having a "healthy" life style for me and my family without layoff or job elimination.

[Magnolia]

Magnolia, you are a smart women who speaks the truth because comes from the heart!!!
GOOD FOR YOU :) :) :) :)

:harhar:
Thanks and expressing myself is not one of my best qualities!
But sometimes I surprise myself !
:harhar:
:cheers: [/img]

[DrivingZiggy]

Obviously we can go round and round with this. But I'm going to try to make this my last post on the subject.

Sure the pay, retirement, job security and all is great. But it's the rest of us that end up paying for it. Like the $1500 of each new car going to pay for only ONE union person's health benefits. Don't think there haven't been times that I've wanted to go union and take advantage of the benefits.

But when I think of the way I've been treated by the vast majority of union people, I can't stomach the idea of becoming one of them.

[saddletramp]

Hey Zig, good to see you drop by! I can understand your feelings, and hope you know that there are some union folks here that will always treat you and your opinions with respect, and we could always stomach the idea of you becoming "one of us"! ;)