Quade axle?

[DW]

I have been looking into getting into a Dump truck. I have been offered a line haul. Load in the pit (sand) haul to a rail yard for shipment, 3 hour drive each way. Need a quad axle for haul. I have never operated a dump before. I asked about a dump trailer for semi but they want a quade. What equipment should I look for and what pitfalls do I need to be aware of. Thanks

[The_Governor]

Kranky can most likely give you all the info you need........shoot him a pm

[Kranky 1]

For that application, where you'll be on the highway most of the time, possibly getting paid by the ton, and dumping in ideal conditions, you'll want to go with a quad that is set up with weight savings in mind.

Single frame rails. Aluminum dump box. Aluminum wheels. Anything to lower you empty weight.

Lightweight steerable pusher axles.

Plastic liner in the dump box to avoid the necessity of shoveling out material hanging up or freezing in the box.

Make sure it has a good size fuel tank(s) however, as you'll use a lot of fuel on those long hauls, and it's a PITA to have to stop for fuel in the middle of the day.

400 + H.P. engine, 13 or 18 speed trans, 44,000 lb rears, and a rear axle ratio which will allow the truck to run 70MPH with the engine in it's "sweet spot" for best fuel mileage.

Although I'm not a fan of air ride suspension on dump trucks, for your stated "line haul" scenario air ride would give a better ride.

That said, if there is a chance you may be also using the truck to haul general excavation materials, big rocks or demo materials, forget the aluminum dump box and go with a Bibeau BFL, which is a heavy duty steel rock & demo box with a combination dump/swing open tailgate.

For general excavation work you would also want a lower rear axle ratio to ensure good startability in soft ground / heavy load conditions without abusing the clutch.

And forget the air ride if you'll be doing any amount of off road hauling, go with a Hendrickson or Chalmers rear suspension instead.

These are a few key items which I can think of off the top of my head, if you have any more specific questions just ask.

[DW]

I'll try that, thanks.

[DW]

Thanks for the information. The "word" I have, it should be a 20 year contract for the pit. They are paying by the hour. They expect to run 40 trucks, 20 by a main contractor and 20 O/O's.
The truck options I was thinking 18 speed trans, around a 500 hp motor. The hendricks suspension. Locking diff. I'm not sure about the type of box until I get more firm information on this job.
Where is a good place to look for information on Dump trucks. I'm sure you folks in the business know better places to look than tourists like me.

I'm not sure how the ride is in a dump truck off road but I know delivering houses with my 85 INT COE single axle it gets kind a rough. The air ride on the frame and seat take some of the bounce off, but I miss my air ride not working on the cab.
Thank you for the information.

[The_Governor]

http://www.jmhtrailers.com/Dump-Truck-Body-Manufacturer.htm

http://www.groupebibeau.com/eng/prod-BFL.asp

[Kranky 1]

Here's the Bibeau BFL that I put on an International quad last year:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/HKJr23/4-18-07012.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/HKJr23/4-18-07010.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/HKJr23/4-20-07003.jpg

[PartTimeDweller]

Kranky, why don't you like air ride?

Many straight dumps, including ours run it with no problem, on and off road. The key is to have both locking diffs and power divider. I have never had a problem getting anywhere with the Pete we have. As a matter of fact, most of the semi dumps around here also run air ride on both tractor and trailer.

[Kranky 1]

Mark, I had one quad in my own fleet a few years ago with air ride, and that was enough to sour me on air ride for big dump trucks.

That truck was always stuck, while the trucks on camelback springs would get in & out of the same job with no problem.

Dumping it was just as bad as dumping a 35' dump trailer. If it wasn't PERFECTLY level, it wanted to tip over (yes the bags were dumped while raising the box)

I only ran that one a couple years, then sold it and replaced it with one on springs.

I've had a lot of guys tell me they like air ride on a dump, and if it works for them, that's great.

All our dump trucks where I work now are on springs - either Hendrickson or Chalmers.

Our semi tractors are all on air ride though, and so are the dump trailers surprisingly, even that heavy rock tub and the Dierzen.

[PartTimeDweller]

Did that truck have full locking Diff's as well as a power divider?

[Kranky 1]

Double post

[Kranky 1]

Double post

[Kranky 1]

Did that truck have full locking Diff's as well as a power divider?

Locking power divider, which I always locked whenever leaving the pavement, and the employees were instructed to do the same.

No side to side locking diffs though.

But the trucks on camelbacks would go in & out of the same jobs all day without even locking the power divider, while the air ride truck was either stuck, or having trouble finding a level enough spot to dump.

Customers started b!tching about it and didn't want that truck on their jobs, so then I just used it for my own sh*t until the opportunity arose to buy a similarly spec'ed CL on camelback.

Once I bought that one, I sold the air ride CL to a guy who was gonna use it for the type of work that DW wants to use his truck for, "line haul" stockpiling, and it worked out fine for that.

[PartTimeDweller]

That was the problem, no side to side lock. Lock that in and our air rides will go anywhere a spring ride will, sometimes better as all wheels are driven. Then lock the power divider in and the truck is unstoppable, unless of course it sinks.

If I hadn't driven this set up in both semi and straight truck, I never would have believed it either, but almost everybody that has bought new trucks in the last 8-10 years are going air ride.

[Kranky 1]

You haven't noticed any instability when raising the box with an air ride compared to spring? As I said, that was another reason I kicked it to the curb.

[Big_Dave]

The 3 Volvos and 2 Internationals that we have working construction have both side to side locks and power divider. The 5 Macks we have do not have the side to side locks.

All 10 have air ride suspensions.

Our tri-axle belly dumps are spring ride (weigh about 800 lbs less than air ride bellys do). Our end dump is spring ride with 2 steerable pusher axles on air ride. These can be raised when needed.

We don't have too many issues of getting stuck in off road situations unless the ground is too soft or because of driver stupidity.

[PartTimeDweller]

You haven't noticed any instability when raising the box with an air ride compared to spring? As I said, that was another reason I kicked it to the curb.

Not at all. We never dump the air in the drive bags, whether tractor or straight truck.I have spread stone with the chains on the gate with no problems. The dump trailers have an automatic dump when the gate is open, but we never dump the drive airbags.

[DW]

Question about the steerable push axles. Is this common? Like I said earllier, new area for me. Most of the push axles I have seen were just straight not steerable. You mentioned the spring ride trucks are considerable lighter. Is this true for Hendrickson, and Chalmers? Thanks

[Bikerboy]

Question about the steerable push axles. Is this common? Like I said earllier, new area for me. Most of the push axles I have seen were just straight not steerable. You mentioned the spring ride trucks are considerable lighter. Is this true for Hendrickson, and Chalmers? Thanks

every state has different laws on pusher/lift axles, steerable or non steerable, single tires or dual tires.

here in ontario all dump trucks only need one lift axle with dual tires or some have the wide singles tires the same as steer tires. Also there is a new law that within a couple years or less, all lift axles on all new vehicles here must be steerable and can not be lifted from inside the cab.

[Kranky 1]

Question about the steerable push axles. Is this common? Like I said earllier, new area for me. Most of the push axles I have seen were just straight not steerable.

In the past, the rigid non steerable lift axles were customary in WI, but steerables have increased in popularity since then. Now, just about all tri & quad axle dumps are being set up with steerables.

Watson Chalin steerable (what we've been using):

http://www.watsonsuspensions.com/images/series/9.jpg

Watso Chalin rigid non steerable:

http://www.watsonsuspensions.com/images/series/4.jpg




You mentioned the spring ride trucks are considerable lighter. Is this true for Hendrickson, and Chalmers? Thanks

Actually, I don't recall saying that spring ride on the drive tandems would be lighter. Air ride is usually lighter in weight than a spring ride setup.

.

[Kranky 1]

every state has different laws on pusher/lift axles, steerable or non steerable, single tires or dual tires.

here in ontario all dump trucks only need one lift axle with dual tires or some have the wide singles tires the same as steer tires. Also there is a new law that within a couple years or less, all lift axles on all new vehicles here must be steerable and can not be lifted from inside the cab.

I sure hope the law allows for the steerable pusher axles to automatically raise when the transmission is placed in reverse. Ever see what happens when a truck backs up with steerable pusher axles down? It ain't pretty.

But I'm sure the lawmakers are blissfully unaware of that.

.

[BeetleBailey]

I have to agree with Kranky at least here in the south air ride tandems are more trouble than their worth. trailer dumps work "almost" as good as spring and give a much better ride to offset the small drawbacks so long as it's not a suicide trailer. ya know the one that raises the front axel up when ya dump it an the air bags dump when you start going up with the trailer. Also don't forget you can do all sorts of neat little things to your gear ratio with the proper tranny.

[Bikerboy]

I sure hope the law allows for the steerable pusher axles to automatically raise when the transmission is placed in reverse. Ever see what happens when a truck backs up with steerable pusher axles down? It ain't pretty.

But I'm sure the lawmakers are blissfully unaware of that.

.

yes i think most trucks have a automatic switch to raise axles when in reverse.

I am not sure how the trailer lift axles work, they must also automatically lift when it reverse too i think? i have never drove anything with steerable lift axles yet, but its gonna be law soon, and all old trucks and trailer without steerable axles will have to be upgraded or else take a weight payload reduction or else be scrapped.

It is illegal to have a switch in the cab for steerable lift axles i know, because they don;t want drivers lifting axles for turns anymore, and guys would still do that even with steerables, for tight corners.

some trailers here can have as many as 4 lift axles on them.

[Bikerboy]

I also don't think air ride dumptrucks can really take the abuse a spring ride or rubber block setup can take.

Air rides just don;t seem stable when dumping, unless all airbags are dumped.

I have also pulled air ride frameless end dumps, and make sure to dump truck and trailer air ride before ever raising the box, also got to make sure you are 100 % level, sometimes i will have to move 2 or 3 times to find a level spot.

[Big_Dave]

Many years ago, I pulled a Ranco 'Anvil' tri-axle frameless end dump w/ a 'demo/rock box' that was spring ride. If I couldn't find a pretty level spot, the box/body didn't go up. :ninja:

Got yelled at by several customers because I refused to dump where they wanted me to.

Plain and simple, I wasn't about to risk laying the damn thing over just 'cuz they wanted the load 'right there'.

[Kranky 1]

yes i think most trucks have a automatic switch to raise axles when in reverse.

I am not sure how the trailer lift axles work, they must also automatically lift when it reverse too i think? i have never drove anything with steerable lift axles yet, but its gonna be law soon, and all old trucks and trailer without steerable axles will have to be upgraded or else take a weight payload reduction or else be scrapped.

It is illegal to have a switch in the cab for steerable lift axles i know, because they don;t want drivers lifting axles for turns anymore, and guys would still do that even with steerables, for tight corners.

some trailers here can have as many as 4 lift axles on them.

Here, currently the law requires that the pressure regulators for the lift axles must be located outside the cab, so that the driver cannot "adjust" the axle weights prior to or during weighing.

The up/down controls and the pressure gauges are still permitted inside the cab.

We use these control consoles on the ones that we set up, they have PTO, up/down, air tailgate, auto tarp, vibrator, and strobe light controls along with a dual pointer pressure gauge to read the pressure on each lift axle:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/HKJr23/4-27-07004.jpg

We mount the pressure regulators under the hood, along with the electric over air solenoid valves which are controlled by the in cab control box:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/HKJr23/4-18-07013.jpg

Not shown in the photos is the relay mounted on the firewall which puts the solenoid valves into the "raise axles" mode whenever the transmission is put in reverse. This relay is activated by the back up light switch, whenever the back up lights are on, the axles will raise.

.

[Rockjockey]

I had air ride dumps for the last 8 years, and never had a problem with them. The company I worked for ordered them exclusively on both aluminum and steel dumps. Even with some of the winners that pull them, the air rides do just fine. The only time they have gone over is because of a driver doing something stupid, and that would happen whether the trailer was air ride or spring. I sure appreciated air ride in the 22' dumps we pulled; it was a lot easier on my back.

[snoope]

We run both spring and air ride with no problems dumping( except for driver error ....into wires:duh2[1]:).

All of our tractors are on air and the newest dump trailers are also....( helps with the inside gauges for legal loads) but as everyone has said ;LEVEL DUMP.....even with our Macks.......I have refused to dump behind one of our own trucks..he "leaned" onto the 1st win-row to dump the 2nd...ever seen a Mack with its driver side tandems up while dumping....He no longer drives for us......

Kranky1, If they (Politicians) make this law.they should ask the"Builders " how they set them up at the factory....Pete and KW make the steerables lift when in reverse with their "Dump" packages and one of our "Jobbers" makes that connection on their "installs".....

My question would be ..will they do this country wide??? We all run very different set-ups and weights.......

S

[allikat]

A lot of steerable axles over here, lock into straight positions when in reverse....
Last quad I drove had 4 non-steering axles, and you HAD to lift at least one to make city corners... get steerables, it's well worth it.

[DW]

I want to say thanks for all the information. It is well... very informative. I have learned quite a bit from these entries. Thanks