My friend needs help....(from our R/T)

[Big_Dave]

My friend posted this on the R/T for TSUSA. I figured you LEO types may be able to help him out also. :)
Big Dave gave me an invite from over on Mauser Central where I Admin. I hope you don't hold that against me, not the Admin part, the part about knowing Big Dave! :D Anyhow, here's my problem, hope someone can help.

I've been driving truck for 27 years and never had an accident that was my fault.....until Tues. night,......maybe.
I was coming down the incline on the Oakland/S.F. Bay bridge into Frisco at about 4:15am. Cal-Trans had all 5 lanes funneled into the left 2 lanes and were picking up the cones with 2 C.H.P. cruisers for escort.
I was in the #2 lane doing about 35-40mph with more than enough stopping distance between me and the Jeep Cherokee in front of me. 3-4 Jap imports with the loud exhaust and spoilers came flying past us right at the funnel and zipped across all the lanes and into the #1 lane at about 50-60mph. The last one just missed the lead CHP car.
The guy in front of the Jeep just stopped dead and the Jeep almost plowed him. I hit my brakes and........NOTHING! I hit them at least 4 more times before it started to slow down. The guy that had stopped must have saw me coming and shot off like a bullet. The guy in the Jeep saw me a split second before impact, which occured a split second before I came to a complete stop.
No injuries, big dent in his bumper, and not a scratch on the truck. CHP saw the collision, but didn't see the racers! and one almost hit him!!! Nobody cited...."yet"!
Now, I always do a pre-trip before the truck moves, plenty of brake shoes, all in adjustment, air supply to specs. When I went back to look, there was only one skid mark from the front right steer tire about 5ft long, about 30ft before the point of impact. When the truck finally started to slow down, it felt like the trailer didn't have brakes and was pushing me, but in a straight line. Tractor and trailer both have ABS. I had a light load too, about 7,000lbs. The trailer didn't bounce when I hit the brakes, and the ABS light never came on.
The brakes worked fine the rest of my route, but when I got back I told the supervisor to have Penske(trucks are leased from them) send their mechanic out to find out what was wrong with it. He came and checked it out, everything was to specs.
I take it out last night, get into Frisco, come up on my exit and step on the brakes.....NOTHING AGAIN! Full air tank, I hit them 3-4 more times before they start to work and started slamming downshifts to make the off ramp. I get to a complete stop and the brakes work fine. When I brought it back today I told the supervisor to get it checked out and red tag it until they "DO" find something wrong with it.
Now....here's my question....we have Owner Responsibility Forms that cover all mechanical defects with the company being responsible. If the ABS was bad(as I suspect it is), was the accident my fault? I have no clue how this works with the O.R. form, being as I have never had an at fault accident. The mechanic agreed with my pre-trip assessment that everything was to specs. I'll know tomorrow what the mechanic finds, I hope!

[USAF_2T2]

That is common for no one to recieve a ticket when an accident occurs. I refuse to write one unless there are atleast 3 witnesses and they all have the same story.

Insurance parties fight out who which company will pay what. I personally wouldn't sweat it, but I also wouldn't drive that truck until it has been checked out.

Good luck.

[White Dog]

Unfortunately; in most (if not all) of this country----since you were the last vehicle in the line....you were the only one to "fail to maintain control".

Nobody else hit anyone else but you; so I can gaurantee you will be the only one "at fault".

Rear end collisions are seldom ever even investigated (unless of course there were multiple vehicles invoved---then there will be multiple citations written)....when it is only two vehicles involved the vehicle doing the hitting is automatically guilty. On the scene.

Now; I'm sure there have been cases where the ticketed rear-ender had no other way out but to hit the vehicle in front of them, because the vehicle struck did something stupid and out of the blue causing the accident---and the ticketed individual took the other party to court and won based on some sort of "confesion" from the defendant.

But:

You have already plead guilty on this board by addmitting twice that the trucks brake system was not acting properly and was (for all intents and purposes) the cause of the collision.

Be prepared to pay for the damages, and to endure an "at fault" accident on your MVR once the other mans insurance company gets through with you.
See; your insurance company is going to be pissed that they have to pay a claim, and they will turn you into the DMV/DOT----so the DMV/DOT will find out about it whether you were ticketed or not.

Best bet is (since there were no damages to your vehicle), try to settle out of court with a "little on top of the cost of damages" with the party in the Jeep-----don't let the insurance companies get invovled!!!!

Just my (logical) 2 common cents. Good Luck.
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[Crystal Pistol]

Cal-Trans had all 5 lanes funneled into the left 2 lanes and were picking up the cones with 2 C.H.P. cruisers for escort.
I was in the #2 lane doing about 35-40mph with more than enough stopping distance between me and the Jeep Cherokee in front of me. 3-4 Jap imports with the loud exhaust and spoilers came flying past us right at the funnel and zipped across all the lanes and into the #1 lane at about 50-60mph. The last one just missed the lead CHP car.
Where is the # 1 lane? Maybe it's just me, but something is confusing about this. If the rear one just missed the lead CHP car, where was the rear CHP car? Were the imports going across right to left, or left to right?
Maybe it's just my "read" on it .... :wacko:

All that aside though, you asked : :cool:
If the ABS was bad(as I suspect it is), was the accident my fault?
If you were driving a vehicle upon a highway with defective or improperly adjusted brakes and you knew it (or if it can be shown that you should have known it based on prior statements to that fact, etc ...),
then yes.... both civilly and criminally.

If you had no prior knowledge of the brake defect,
then criminally ....no,
but civilly ....probably yes.

By "criminally", I refer to "criminal law" which includes even traffic infractions which are slight on up through serious misdemeanors like "reckless driving", etc. ,
where as by "civilly", I am refering to civil law which varies from state to state and which may or may not take into account any part played by the little imports with loud mufflers and spoilers.

:type: I know little about California's laws (except that when it comes to the "rules of the road", there is only slight variation from state to state), and so my vague answer. :cool:
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
WhiteDog Unfortunately; in most (if not all) of this country----since you were the last vehicle in the line....you were the only one to "fail to maintain control".

Nobody else hit anyone else but you; so I can gaurantee you will be the only one "at fault".

Rear end collisions are seldom ever even investigated (unless of course there were multiple vehicles invoved---then there will be multiple citations written)....when it is only two vehicles involved the vehicle doing the hitting is automatically guilty. On the scene.
They are investigated here, just like any other wreck ... but usually the person in the rear is found at fault because only that person can control the following distance they maintain, only they can be held accountable for a failure to pay attention to traffic ahead of their vehicle, only they can be held accountable for failing to brake when they should have, etc ...
Which is why each driver must maintain a safe following distance on the vehicle ahead and be observant of traffic conditions ahead ... because that is the way they travel, and not because it's assumed automatically.
In other words, not because it's automatic ... but because it usually is shown to be that way upon investigation.

One never knows when the traffic ahead or the car in front of your bumper will need to suddenly draw up brakes, like maybe even when no appearant reason exist but the driver feels the start of a sudden heart attack and he acts while he can (as happened to a friend many years ago, he died but his wife lived because he got the car nearly stopped before he died).

For those other cases where a motorist stopps for no good reason in traffic or creates a dangerous obstruction for no good reason, we have charges that we use like "unlawfully stopping in the roadway in a hazardous manner" or even the "reckless driving ... general rule".

Perhaps we aren't so far apart, but I just wanted to clear up a common misconception there .............. :)


WhiteDog Best bet is (since there were no damages to your vehicle), try to settle out of court with a "little on top of the cost of damages" with the party in the Jeep-----don't let the insurance companies get invovled!!!!

Agreed ... It's something I often will "suggest" to drivers in minor crashes, but I am very careful to word my suggestion so that they pick up on the idea without me having to actually spell it all out, although I never considered the "little on top" part (I do tip waitresses and waiters though).
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Later folks ............. :chug:

[TRAP55]

Where is the # 1 lane? Maybe it's just me, but something is confusing about this. If the rear one just missed the lead CHP car, where was the rear CHP car? Were the imports going across right to left, or left to right?
Maybe it's just my "read" on it ....


CP, the #1 lane would be the far left lane. The CHP was ahead of us in the #3 lane with the other being in the #5 lane behind us. The imports came up in the #'s 3-4 and 5 lanes and came right to left.
The Jeep driver told the CHP the same thing I did, and was P.O.'d at them for not catching the reckless drivers. Fines for speeding in a "cone zone" here are pretty stiff.

All that aside, to simplify the facts, I did everything within the law, safety wise(i.e. my speed, and following distance, and vehicle inspection) that was my responsibility and in my control.
Whatever the defect is, was not within my ability or the mechanics, to find. The company has responsibility for mechanical defects. The mechanical defect caused me, to not have the ability to stop within the safe distance in which I was following.
I understand the last guy in line of a pile up gets the ticket, for the simple reason he should have had a safe stopping distance between him and the car in front of him. I did have it....and have no doubt the companies insurance will have to pay.
I see it as their fault with the Owner Responsibility form and see no reason I should be cited and recieve points on my record...Am I wrong?

[Bikerboy]

Mecanical stuff does break, and if there was no way for the driver to know it would break, i don't see how the driver should be held responsible for it.

Accidents do happen, that are no ones fault. Sometimes things do break without warning, expecially electrical or air/hydraulic equipment.

I think it should be totally the companys's fault for running equipment that broke.

Theres sounds like there was no way to driver could have known about it or prevented the crash.

[Crystal Pistol]

All that aside, to simplify the facts, I did everything within the law, safety wise(i.e. my speed, and following distance, and vehicle inspection) that was my responsibility and in my control.
Whatever the defect is, was not within my ability or the mechanics, to find. The company has responsibility for mechanical defects. The mechanical defect caused me, to not have the ability to stop within the safe distance in which I was following.
I understand the last guy in line of a pile up gets the ticket, for the simple reason he should have had a safe stopping distance between him and the car in front of him. I did have it....and have no doubt the companies insurance will have to pay.
I see it as their fault with the Owner Responsibility form and see no reason I should be cited and recieve points on my record...Am I wrong?
If you had no prior knowledge of the brake defect,
then ....no.

You might want to do some checking online with NHTSA and such ... to see if there were any recalls on the braking system as used in your truck or any history of incidents like yours where there was an intermittent problem as you describe. :cool:

[nitestar]

I am not sure what kind of truck you drive but you can call the manufacture and ask for a service bulletins.
and any recalls on your model of truck.
I found several on my Century and they were fixed at no cost to me. The differrence is mine were not safety related.
You MUST notify the mfg to start the ball rolling if the VENDOR made a defective part . Don't wait for your company to do it.

If the ABS quits working the system should by default return to normal braking mode.
I personally hate ABS.
ABS does not stop you sooner but straighter.

There was a wheel problem that was evident in 99 for certain Freighliners. The steering spindle was too soft and was breaking on some trucks.
Freighliner could not acknowledge the problem without accepting responsiblility for it. They had to find the origin of the problem first, This took a year to do. The vendor made them with too soft a metal.

[MoonRunner]

im glad that I do not have to work crashes. I feel that if these idiots who drive like there is no tomorrow, cut in front of you then brake hard, should be taken off the road. I see it all the time while driving. I think CP and USAF2T2 both have marked cars and usually when the motoring public can see a marked car, they behave. When the marked car is gone, then they all act like idiots again.

I know it is hard to prove that a car cut in front of you and stopped short causing you to strike the rear. I'm sure that most who this happens to get shown as (at fault) in the crash investigation. I admit this is not fair but what do you do???

I always allow several spaces between me and the vehicle in front of me but usually a few cars will fill the hole and you slow up more. This is a frustrating delima and I salute the patience that you people show the majority of the time.