Commercial Driver's License:

[Arresting_Quack]

Yesterday and today, I placed three drivers out-of-service for operating commercial motor vehicles with out a CDL.

1. Landscaper, Ford, F-450 4-door crew cab, GVWR 15,000 pounds pulling a 2 axle ball trailer with a 12,000 GVWR

2. Landscaper, International 4-door crew cab, D-3300, GVWR 33,000 pound pulling a 2-axle trailer with a GVWR of 12,000 pounds

3. Excavator, Ford F-450, 2- door flat bed, GVWR, towing a 3-axle goose neck with a GVWR of 20,000 pounds.

The Federal Law applies to interstate and intrastate commerce:

383.5 Definitions.

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle --

(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or

(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or

(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

15,000 + 12,000 = 27,000 Class A CDL required

33,000 + 12,000 = 52,000 Class A CDL required

15,000 + 20,000 = 45,000 Class A CDL required

26,000 + 10,000 = 36,000 NO CDL REQUIRED

The trailer does not have a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more so the CDL rule does not apply.

Guidance

383.5 Definitions

Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds GVWR, towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a CMV and does the driver need a CDL?

Guidance: No to both questions. Although the vehicle has a GCWR of 36,000 pounds, it is not a CMV under any part of the definition of that term in 383.5 , and a CDL is not federally required.

26,001 + 9,000 = 35,001 Class B CDL required.

26,001 + 11,000 = 37,001 Class A CDL required

Trailer exceeds 10,001 pounds, therefore Class A CDL required.

The non-qualified driver raises major issues as the insurance companies may not pay claims for drivers that are not qualified. The drivers listed all operated in intrastate commerce and were not transporting HM, therefore the FMCSR rules regarding insurance do not apply.

One of the drivers stated he had no driver's license at all, when asked, "You mean you left it at home?" The driver's response was; "No, I don't have a driver's license." :wacko:

Be diligent, be sharp, be safe.

[Arresting_Quack]

I mis-spoke reagrding the insurance. The carriers were all transporting gasoline under the Materials of Trade exception. Therefore, the FMCSR regs regarding insurance may apply.

Question 7: Are motor carriers transporting HM that are covered under exceptions to the HMRs subject to financial responsibility regulations?

Guidance: Yes. Even though an HM may be covered under a packaging, placarding, transportation, or other exception to the HMRs, if the item meets the definition of a hazardous material per 49 CFR171.8, it is still considered HM for the purposes of Part 387. The motor carrier must still provide for financial responsibility at the appropriate level for the commodity being transported.

(3) Forhire and Private (In interstate or foreign commerce: in any quantity; or in intrastate commerce, in bulk only; with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 or more pounds) .

Oil listed in 49 CFR 172.101; hazardous waste, hazardous materials and hazardous substances defined in 49 CFR 171.8 and listed in 49 CFR 172.101, but not mentioned in (2) above or (4) below

1,000,000

Be safe.

[ATCO]

I've got a good one for you...

What is your deffinition and understanding the law regarding Hot Shot trucks...

Let me give you the details...




2005 Dodge QC Dually 2WD LWB. GVWR=11,500

2005 40' Kaufman Gooseneck Flatbed with dovetail. GVWR=25,900

Apportioned Tagged at 33,000pounds.

Total unit length is 67' 2".

DOT stopped our unit in Florida yesterday and fined us for 2 things. One is that we were not permitted as a "straight truck". The second was for being overlength on our trailer that was attached to a "straight truck". Maximum trailer length is 28'

Would you consider David's pick-up truck a "Straight Truck", hense the smaller trailer length law? He is operating with the understanding he is a combination vehicle with a valid CDL A. I've got more questions to follow... I'm looking foward to the take by all the resident LEO's =)

Also, while I'm thinking about it, if he removes the bed, and registers as a truck tractor, does this aleviate the problem?

I'm thinking about running Hot Shot, and would like to be legal...

[Arresting_Quack]

David's vehicle is a straight-truck. If a truck can carry cargo it's a TRUCK not a TRACTOR. A trailer is not CARGO. Cargo is loaded onto the trailer.

Yes, if you removed the cargo carrying capability of the truck it would be a tractor.

Florida says:

316.003 Definitions.--The following words and phrases, when used in this chapter, shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them in this section, except where the context otherwise require

(59) TRUCK.--Any motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

(60) TRUCK TRACTOR.--Any motor vehicle designed and used primarily for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry a load other than a part of the weight of the vehicle and load so drawn.


316.515 Maximum width, height, length.--

(a) Straight trucks.--No straight truck may exceed a length of 40 feet in extreme overall dimension, exclusive of safety and energy conservation devices approved by the department for use on vehicles using public roads. A straight truck may tow no more than one trailer, and such trailer may not exceed a length of 28 feet. However, such trailer limitation does not apply if the overall length of the truck-trailer combination is 65 feet or less, including the load thereon. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, a truck-trailer combination engaged in the transportation of boats, or boat trailers whose design dictates a front-to-rear stacking method shall not exceed the length limitations of this paragraph exclusive of the load; however, the load may extend up to an additional 6 feet beyond the rear of the trailer.

Need to move the fifth wheel up a foot or two.

Total unit length is 67' 2".

I used the word length after clicking on the Lookup Florida Statutes.

http://taxonomy.myflorida.com/Taxonomy/Government/Legislative%20Branch

I used to work in Colorado so I knew where to look using Colorado's web site:

http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0

Colorado says:

42-1-102. Definitions - repeal.


(108) "Truck" means any motor vehicle equipped with a body designed to carry property and which is generally and commonly used to carry and transport property over the public highways.

(109) "Truck tractor - laden" or "laden truck tractor" means any motor vehicle carrying cargo or designed to carry cargo that is generally and commonly designed and used to draw a semitrailer or trailer and its cargo load over the public highways.

(109.5) "Truck tractor - unladen" or "unladen truck tractor" means any motor vehicle not carrying cargo that is generally and commonly designed and used to draw a semitrailer or trailer and its cargo load over the public highways.


42-4-504. Height and length of vehicles.

(4) No combination of vehicles coupled together shall consist of more than four units, and no such combination of vehicles shall exceed a total overall length of seventy feet. Said length limitation shall not apply to unladen truck tractor-semitrailer combinations when the semitrailer is fifty-seven feet four inches or less in length or to unladen truck tractor-semitrailer-trailer combinations when the semitrailer and the trailer are each twenty-eight feet six inches or less in length. Said length limitations shall also not apply to vehicles operated by a public utility when required for emergency repair of public service facilities or properties or when operated under special permit as provided in section 42-4-510, but, in respect to night transportation, every such vehicle and the load thereon shall be equipped with a sufficient number of clearance lamps on both sides and marker lamps upon the extreme ends of any projecting load to clearly mark the dimensions of such load.

Best of luck.

Be safe.

[ATCO]

wow, no need for follow up questions from me right now :cool:

I'm glad you mentioned dromedary boxes, as really that was something I was curious about. Are most states similar with their deffinitions and laws? I know I need to check out my home state of California's laws regarding this...

thanks!

[Wrongway]

I personally would take my day in court over this one.
Using only the rule items presented in these posts, I interpret his vehicle as a tractor even though there's a little bed area left for some type of cargo.

Here's where my interpretation differs:Arresting_Quack: If a truck can carry cargo it's a TRUCK not a TRACTOR.I would reply by examining rule: (59) TRUCK.--Any motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

In my mind, once he put that 5th wheel back there, the bed is no longer designed as a practical "cargo area".
Secondly, the truck is not used to carry cargo.
And, as far as the posts go, the truck is not maintained primarily for transportation of property.
It is used & maintained for carrying the trailer.

In my estimation, the rules don't say "Just because it can carry some type of cargo that it must.
To me the rule begs the question of whether the truck IS / ISN'T carrying cargo or just supporting the weight of the trailer.

Maybe I'm missing something important.

[Arresting_Quack]

WW:

Using only the rule items presented in these posts, I interpret his vehicle as a tractor even though there's a little bed area left for some type of cargo.

Every person is entitled to their day in court. However:

(59) TRUCK.--Any motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

The key phrase is OR.

Dodge built the truck to carry cargo. Therefore, the vehicle is a truck.

If the pick-up came without a bed and you added a flat bed to carry hay, fence material and tow trailers as needed with the fifth wheel below a hatch in the floor it is a truck.

Most fifth wheel hitches are placed over or near the axle. The placement usually leaves room for a cargo box behind the cab and smaller storage boxes along the side of the bed.

Also keep in mind the legal precedence has been set and the fact the vehicle is a pick-up it is still capable of carrying cargo when uncoupled from the trailer. The rule has nothing to do with the capability of the vehicle at the time of the stop, the law is aimed at the intended purpose of the vehicle.

The fact the carrier decided to use a gooseneck instead of a ball hitch has no bearing on the vehicle's capability.

The same applies to carriers that license vehicles for 26,000 pounds when the GVWR is 28,000 pounds. The carrier's decision to license at a lower GVWR does not alleviate the requirement for a CDL. Yes, I have encountered these types of situations. ;) Give the carrier an E for effort. However, the rule still applied.

Be safe.