Same direction moving radar ................

[Crystal Pistol]

Yep, it's true. Been that way for a decade at least, but I still find guys out there that had no idea that a police officer or trooper driving along at or near the speed limit has the capability to check the speeds of vehicles overtaking from the rear, or those walking away out front, with his radar. :ninja:

When I was a "young toad", the troopers only used radar in stationary setups, the old "tripods" as some may recall. The radar consisted of a readout that was "analog" with a sweep meter that read to 100, :yikes: an antenna that could be mounted on a window, a tripod, etc, the tuning forks, and a spool of 100 feet of cable to connect the readout usually located back out of sight near where the cars were, and the antenna which was sometimes disguised (take a news paper box, cut a round hole through the center the same diameter as the antenna, cut it and place a hinge on top, and then the box was simply set on the antenna which blended in well). Troopers here back then often gathered up the radar and took it out to work two or three hours at a time somewhere on Rt 11 or I-81 and often, the first one to be lucky enough to be "at bat" when the meter pegged (100 mph) was the reipient of a free meal at the other's pooled expense. :cheers:

Then in 1971, my Department purchased it's first Kustom Signals MR-7 which allowed stationary operation, and opposite direction moving mode. It didn't take long for people to realize that if you met a trooper and you saw that big antenna hanging on the rear window, it was a good bet he'ld be back if you were speeding much. :omg:

In 1978, we purchased the first new Kustom Signals KR-11, K band and they had the opposite moving modes and stationary modes, and a new feature called "hold" which allowed the operator to interupt the transmitted signal, to place it "on hold" and thus deny radar detectors the signal needed to detect police radar. The switch from X to K band really played havoc with older radar detectors as well. :rofl:

In later years, we moved on to the Kustom Signals KR-10sp which basically did what a KR-11 did, but displayed the speed to the operator immediately. The KR-11 did an internal comparison of three readings before displaying it to the operator which took 1/2 second or more sometimes, the KR-10sp was "instant" You could set a radar detector like a Q-1000 or FB Elite or Escort on top of the radar on the dash, hit the button, check a speed, read it, and put it back on hold before the radar detector ever went off it was so fast now. I used to show this to drivers regularly. :p

Then ... in the mid '90s we began purchasing the newer Kustom Signals "Hawk" and for the first time, we had the capabilty of checking the speed of vehicles while we were stationary, moving in opposite direction, and now ... while moving in the same direction. With two antennas, it was possible to switch from front to rear. We still carried the antennas outside the car since 1979 though. Soon, the Kustom Eagle came out, with the added "fastest" button which allows us to cause the radar to exhibit the strongest speed reading, as well as the fastest speed being processed. Now, we could sometimes get the faster 4 wheeler passing the truck where as before we usually only got a reading on the truck then, and we could only guess about the car ... with no evidence of a violation. The really big news, the really big change, was the same direction moving mode though. :clap:

Now, half of my radar violations are written using same direction, moving mode on my Kustom Golden eagle radar, usually the rear antenna. It's just a matter of riding along, and watching the mirrors, and waiting. :fishing: When a violation is detected and evidence gathered, one must simply slow down enough to get the violator to pass and pick a spot to stop them. Very rarely is any argument heard or denial as they know they just ran up on you when you were already doing the speed limit. There is little hope of convincing a LEO who was running 65 in a 65 zone when you rolled up on his but at 80+ that he "picked the wrong vehicle". :deal:

Why all this????? Tonight alone, I had two seperate trucks overtake me in reduced 55 mph work zones while I was in the right lane between trucks, both instances they were in the left lane "showing off" at 17 and 22 over the 55 limit respectively, and in both cases, they raised cain on the CB when they got up almost to me and saw those decals, all the while braking hard, and they both raised cain at drivers of the other trucks who were following me ... the ones they were passing when they "found" me. Once stopped, both claimed that they thought they were going about 55, in one case, and the other stated he had cruise set at the limit, but he wasn't sure what the limit was when asked (so :thinking: ... how did he know he had cruise set to it?:noclue:).

Bottom line, when ... maybe I should say first "if" and then "when" you are strolling along "well over" :whistling: in the showoff lane, and suddenly there is a car with markings or a lot of antennas on it, or you catch the glimpse of blue lights on the rear package shelf there in the right lane as you roll up on the rear :yikes: ... cool it. He's already got you if he was paying attention. There are no judges or jurors here to impress. You are hoping for the best at this point, and there is hope ... maybe. :mellow:

Don't curse fellow drivers who may not have known who it was. Don't slam on brakes. Don't suddenly cut to the lane behind the suspected cop and make him / her think you may strike their car. Try not to get on the CB about a "damn cop". :no:

:yes: Do lift on the throttle and slowly reduce speed, even if it does carry you past him. Stay off the CB. Clear him and then signal, and when safe ... move to the slow lane. If the lights (the blue ones) come on, try not to find the only 87 feet of guard rail in the next 2.7 miles to park beside ... think safety ... and plan your actions so that he get's the idea that safety is a concern to you, both his and that of the other people on the roadway (he knows you probably have a natural concern for your own safety, no need to try to show that to him). :toughcrowd:

Even if you do get the ticket you so hoped to avoid, don't get bent out of shape on the roadside. He will note it, some judges want to know "demeanor" later if a lawyer is presenting a speedo calibration or other wise is pleading a case, it can still come back and bite you in the arse if you acted like an arse after all. :crying:

Stay cool .......... :terminator:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make Courtesy Your "Code of the Road" ......

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/pb0666d238943b229fca724e83712efb9/fd0c1b79.jpg
...... and whatever you do ... Have a Safe Trip! :by:

[nitestar]

CP
Very well written and again you are trying to educate some.

From begining to end you have explained how to avoid a ticket and why lying is not going to help.
How to safetly stop and present yourself.

I see no excuse for 15 or 20 over the speed limit. unless you have an emergency it is stupid and unsafe.

I get yelled at on the CB for not going over the speed limit in a construction zone a lot.
If it says 55mph I go 55mph. if it drops from 70 to 60 I go 60. I set the cruize to avoid any conflicts with the radar operator..
Most of this is at night when traffic is very light, but LEO's are around 24 -7. I value my CDL

Most of the time the cry babies race around and cut in to exit just like they do in their cars. They'll get over it in the same pants they got upset in.

[Flying Dutchman]

Good job, CP! Your historical knowledge of radar and its evolution adds some good info to this site!

You are fortunate that your agency gets the "good stuff" with regard to electonics. When I was a deputy, we had the old Kustom Signals units (KR-11 or something like that, I think). They were fine, accurate and got the job done. However, they would not work in the 'same direction' mode, nor would they give a proper reading when the target was moving away from the patrol car. Ah, 1980s technology at its finest!!

During the time I had a radar unit in my car,
I found that it would "ghost" a lot when driving behind a tractor-trailer. The beam bounced off the rear of the trailer (especially the shiny ones) and made the display read as though I was going 20 mph instead of 60 mph. Of course, this made oncoming traffic going 60 mph appear to be going about 100 mph on the 'target' display! Quite funny to see it do that; but all the more reason why the 'patrol' speed window always must match the speed shown on the properly calibrated police car speedometer.

The large antenna was mounted outside on the rear window, so we had to use the little rubber spacer at the top of the glass, and thus could not run our radar units during inclement weather. A few guys had a special mount rigged up to use it on the front dashboard, but the beam would bounce off of the windshield and the defroster could sometimes interfere with the reading. On medium, you could get 35 mph out of the A/C fan when parked!

They did work well with the "instant on" button, however; although most deputies left theirs on all the time since so few drivers use radar detectors these days. We also only had one antenna per unit, so we did not have the luxury of having one for oncoming traffic and another for cars approaching from behind.

A friend of mine from a different agency had one of those Eagle units with the two little antennae. He had one mounted up front and another in the back window and he could use it in all types of weather since the whole system was inside the vehicle. It also had the "fastest" readout window and could work in the same direction. He also never had to switch between moving and stationary mode as we did -- the unit somehow knew whether or not the car was moving.

Did you ever get training on E.S.P., VisiCalc or VASCAR? Those are different animals altogether and are not detectable by other vehicles - since they don't transmit anything. Local police in Pennsylvania (where I lived for several years) are prohibited from using radar, so they have had to resort to other means for speed enforcement. Also, state troopers there are the only officers allowed to use radar - but they can only use it in stationary mode. They find some good hiding places, though!

Stay safe out there, okay?


http://www.kustomsignals.com

http://www.vascarplus.com

[Preacher]

WOW! great post CP. :classic:

[Timothy J. Begle]

tuning forks
Hey CP have any luck counting how fast the tuning forks vibrate? :classic: :ninja:

We use to joke years ago on how do we know the tuning forks are right. Then we would act as if we were counting. I long forgot but it’s more then I have fingers and toes a second. :ninja:

[Timothy J. Begle]

Oh yeah!
Good post CP!

Never have come up on a cop in a constuction zone, but have come up on them in a lot of other places!
:yikes:

Since my high speed days are way behind me. These days it's the cop that's driving under the speed limit that I come up on.

That being sad, it just amazes me how many people will not pass a cop even though the cop is going under the limit.
As I have said many times, 'if the speed limit is 70MPH it's still 70MPH when a cop is around!'
:classic:

[Crystal Pistol]

Oh yeah!
Good post CP!

Never have come up on a cop in a constuction zone, but have come up on them in a lot of other places!
:yikes:

Since my high speed days are way behind me. These days it's the cop that's driving under the speed limit that I come up on.

That being sad, it just amazes me how many people will not pass a cop even though the cop is going under the limit.
As I have said many times, 'if the speed limit is 70MPH it's still 70MPH when a cop is around!'
:classic:

Thanks .... to all of you. :cheers:




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make Courtesy Your "Code of the Road" ......

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid193/pa539bf407ff5003d04a25c21d178cb00/f1910140.jpg
...... and whatever you do ... Have a Safe Trip!

[Gator]

CP,I've read various things online about radar in the last month or so of my resent radar research.But on your Radar equipment,how far can you get out?How accurate and far can you reach if you are going north and someone is going south?I used to think radar got out 1-2 miles,but some of the stuff I read claims its quite a bit less.

Those two drivers in your post,doing over 15 over,did you cite them for that,I avoid speeding in constuction zones,city limits,congested areas,bad conditions,etc...but I avoid the 15 over thing anywhere,thats the biggy.

[Flying Dutchman]

Some rather interesting info can be found at these links. I can't vouch for the accuracy, but it is still some entertaining stuff to devour on a boring evening at home.

http://www.speedzones.com

http://www.kustomsignals.com

http://www.valentineone.com

http://www.speedtrap.org

[Crystal Pistol]

CP,I've read various things online about radar in the last month or so of my resent radar research.But on your Radar equipment,how far can you get out?How accurate and far can you reach if you are going north and someone is going south?I used to think radar got out 1-2 miles,but some of the stuff I read claims its quite a bit less.

Those two drivers in your post,doing over 15 over,did you cite them for that,I avoid speeding in constuction zones,city limits,congested areas,bad conditions,etc...but I avoid the 15 over thing anywhere,thats the biggy.

Hey, "how far" depends on so many things. Size and shape of target, terrain, weather (rain or fog or clear), allignment, amount of other traffic ... all play into the maximum distance it will detect and report the speed of a vehicle.

Usually I try to set up to limit my distances to 200 yards or less, give or take, approximately maybe. I have seen it check a truck at well over two miles when no obstructions and there is a slight dip or big dip .... where there is an absolute clear line of sight. Think about "New River", "Buffalo Creek" or "James River" areas among others, like at 2am, and police car is 2/3 ways up hill in dark off side of road behinmd guard rail, using rear antenna. When traffic is really light at the we hours, speed can be checked plumb across the gorge as soon as they are seen, but that's way too far to judge speed and to be sure of target ID ... so I wait untill they are closer like.

I have talked to some west Texas troopers who claim to have tracked the speed of trucks in the wee morning hours for several miles away until they pass. I believe it, though at two miles there is no case ... but if it keeps coming at a high speed and gets close enough .... good deal.

Yeah, I wrote the two in the work zone at what they were doing as I recall. Pretty sure I did anyways, I normally would have under the circumstances.

[Flying Dutchman]

Just remember, CP, that you are supposed to have that 'visual tracking history' that is oh so important.
:cool:

Just kidding, sir. I know you are aware of exactly how well it works. You also have the state-of-the-art equipment and don't have to worry about your antenna getting wet. Isn't that Eagle system really nice? The "instant on" is exactly that - no waiting with that stuff.

A friend of mine works for a small town department that has the Eagle units. I remember one night sitting in his car chatting when an airplane flew overhead. He grabbed the antenna and aimed it at a freakin' plane and it actually gave a reading of 108 or something similar! How cool is that? The darn thing was not even coming right toward us, either.

I could never get our antique radar guns to pick up on a plane, although I caught my defroster going 36 mph when parked.
:yikes:


Flying Dutchman; wonders how many cops have gotten cancer from being too close to a radar beam all day long

[Farmer_Joe]

it just amazes me how many people will not pass a cop even though the cop is going under the limit.

I think I was about age 20 or so when I came up on a marked car at mid day, sunny and clear skies with my pov set at the 100km/hr limit and I slowly passed the cop. I looked right at him as we were side by side for a few seconds and I'll never forget the look of total disbelief on his face that I had the nerve to pass him. He pulled me over as soon as signalled back in front of him.

The conversation:
cop: what in the hell do you think you're doing?
me: what?! I had the cruise set to 100km/hr and I passed you b/c you were going slower.
cop: I was going 100km/hr, you were doing 108km/hr.
me: I swear to you sir, mine said 100km/hr. Other than a few cars with seniors driving and some slow trks in the hills, you're the only other car I have passed in the last 100 miles.

Cop shook his head and laughed and said "be sure to get your speedometer corrected soon son and cut your speed back on your speedometer by at least 8km/hr. Have a good day.

Do lift on the throttle and slowly reduce speed, even if it does carry you past him. Stay off the CB. Clear him and then signal, and when safe ... move to the slow lane. If the lights (the blue ones) come on, try not to find the only 87 feet of guard rail in the next 2.7 miles to park beside ... think safety ... and plan your actions so that he get's the idea that safety is a concern to you, both his and that of the other people on the roadway (he knows you probably have a natural concern for your own safety, no need to try to show that to him).



I have said this before only to be corrected a few postings later that it is a wrong choice to make.

I know I broke the law & I will accept the consequences without an attitude. I'll be courteous and polite to the officer for he is just doing his job -> to keep the roadways safe for everyone. Sometimes I got a warning - sometimes I got a ticket.

It's been over 10yrs since my last speeding ticket and it could have been almost 15yrs if it wasn't for a trk I was unifamilar with that had a speedo 11mph out, I got clipped within the 1st 30 minutes of driving it.

[Mark-the-Spark]

. . . . . In 1978, we purchased the first new Kustom Signals KR-11, K band and they had ... a new feature called "hold" . . . ..

Yeah, I remember when those came out... that was 'dirty pool' :p

However...

A few years ago I was driving my fourwheeler thru in the middle of Nevada (i.e., in the middle of nowhere) when I began getting intermittent alerts on my radar detector (perfectly legal there). Not only were there no other vehicles around, these were K or Ka (I forget) alerts, which meant they generally were not false alarms.

This intermittent beeping, say once every few minutes, continued over the next 40-60 miles of desert. Needless to say I was perplexed. This was the best radar detector that money could buy, and it simply did not make mistakes on those bands (altho it would occasionally false on laser).

The mystery was eventually solved as I finally came upon a long string of traffic on the two lane road. The traffic was held up by a large slow moving RV... behind the RV was a Nevada State Trooper, hiding behind the RV and using his 'hold' function to 'shoot' the oncoming traffic :wtf:

Sneaky, very sneaky, but... the huge metal rear end of the RV was reflecting a lot of the radar signal behind him -- that's what my detector was picking up. :rofl:

Needless to say, no one was brave enuf to pass the trooper and the RV, at least until I came along (and that, as they say, is another story :p ).

[Gator]

15 over in a construction zone...........ouch :yikes:

Texas troopers I notice when they are coming at me they turn thier radar on and off,periodically,the detector seems to pick up on them from pretty far out,specailly in west TX,where theres not much,except some rolling hills,one thing I notice,it seems like they zap vehicles in the left lane out there,but not always.They can catch prey all day if they want,theres lots of cars that run very highspeeds,but I reckon thats everywhere,lots of triple digit cars it seems to me.

[K C Brau]

CP, great piece on the radar history. Thanks.

My best luck when dealing with officers has been the "yes sir, no sir" routine. I had an uncle who was career with Houston (TX) PD, who advised me at an early age that making someone's job easier, especially when I was out of line, would usually pay great dividends. He was sooo right.

Not stopped for speeding in last 10 years, but still would pull well off the road using signals, and would keep hands clearly visible. And again, courtesy is most important. After all, don't all of us try to assess the situation as we get there? Our opinions and actions are usually dictated in the first few seconds.

[magicman]

Back in the 80's, when I was a dispatcher, I was going down the main street of the little town I lived in. I was driving a VW with a Baja kit. You know, bobbed fenders and no hood on the rear. The engine was completely exposed to the rear. The Police Chief, a friend, yelled at me on the CB radio and wanted to know how fast I was going right then. I looked down and told him 22 MPH ( in a 25 Zone I might add). He told me to pull over in front of the cop shop and he wanted to show me something. He clocked me at 138 MPH. :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: The only thing we could figure out was it picked up the metal fan in the back. :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[Capt._Chaos]

Back in the 80's, when I was a dispatcher, I was going down the main street of the little town I lived in. I was driving a VW with a Baja kit. You know, bobbed fenders and no hood on the rear. The engine was completely exposed to the rear. The Police Chief, a friend, yelled at me on the CB radio and wanted to know how fast I was going right then. I looked down and told him 22 MPH ( in a 25 Zone I might add). He told me to pull over in front of the cop shop and he wanted to show me something. He clocked me at 138 MPH. :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: The only thing we could figure out was it picked up the metal fan in the back. :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

That's funny! :rofl:

Years ago a LEO friend of mine told me there was a particular radar jammer on the market where the user could set the speed at what he/she wanted the cop's radar gun to read. The stories about the jammer being left on & giving the cop a reading of 70 MPH while the driver was going the speed limit in a school zone were hilarious!

[Flying Dutchman]

When I was a deputy sheriff, I could get the radar unit to 'clock' my defroster at 35 mph. When the antenna was mounted on the dashboard and the switch was set for 'moving' mode, the defroster fan would register 35 mph when the car was parked!
:p

Contrary to popular belief, I was never able to find a tree going 68. I have heard that one many times.

We had the old Kustom Signals guns, though, and I am sure that CP gets the new Eagle units which can be used in virtually any mode -- and they even get two antennae with it. Our Kustom Signals units had one antenna and would only work with traffic coming toward us (not while moving away). Ours worked inside the windshield, but functioned best when mounted outside of left-rear window.

The weirdest thing was "signal ghosting" that occured when following a semi on a divided highway. The radar unit thought the semi was sitting still when you might be approaching it from behind at 20 mph faster. The truck would be going 40, I would be going 60......making my radar unit 'think' my cruiser was traveling at only 20 mph. Traffic going the other way 'appeared' to be going 100+ mph in the "target speed" readout instead of their actual velocity of 60 mph.
:wtf:

That is why using moving radar requires a bit more observation of your surroundings and that you ensure your "patrol" speed on the radar unit matches your cruiser's calibrated speedometer. (Stationary radar doesn't require the vehicle to have a calibrated speedometer, but moving radar does. Our cars were calibrated every 180 days, I believe.)

Radar is very, very accurate under proper operating circumstances, but the officer still must provide the element of judgement to ensure a true speed measurement and that the proper 'target' vehicle is indeed the one which your unit is tracking.

Many states also use VASCAR, but it doesn't transmit any signal that is detectable by any electronic device. As for jammers, they might work......but you would have to be transmitting on the exact same band of the police radar you seek to block. I suppose you could get into big trouble for transmitting without an FCC license, too.
:harhar:

[Uncle Fester]

I have the ULTIMATE ANSWER to ANY radar ANY police officer DARES point in my direction:

http://z.about.com/d/usmilitary/1/0/y/7/agm_88.jpg

This little baby is the AGM-88 HARM
The AGM-88 HARM (high-speed antiradiation missile) is an air-to-surface tactical missile designed to seek and destroy enemy radar-just what the discriminating scofflaw needs for not only avoiding undeserved speeding tickets, but ELIMINATING speed traps in the blink of an eye.
Just think of all the goodwill you'll have with other motorists when your AGM-88 HARM leaps off the launch rails, flies after the radar unit emitting a signal and when you drive by, the AGM-88 will have eliminated that speed trap leaving only a smoking hole where smokey use to be.
Have you been disappointed by other HARM's that lost target aquisition, went "dumb" and took out a toll plaza when the radar was shut down?
Not a problem with the AGM-88 because with it's "smart" technology, it actaully remembers where the radar signal was broadcasted from and leaves a smoking hole within seconds.
Available in a wide range of colors and coming soon to a T/A Travel Center near you!

All kidding aisde though, I have looked over the Kustom website and can't help but wonder two things:
First, why is virtually every product that they make named after a raptor of some sort.
Are they trying to sell their product on the idea that those who use their products are the hunters and the motoring public is the prey?

I also wonder why they refuse to release information on how their products operate to the general public?

I got a speeding ticket several years ago and actually had to threaten the traffic Supervisor with a "Motion to compell" and a deposition if he didn't comply with the subpoena and give up that operators handbook for the Kustom "talon" that I was clocked with.
"That's not something we SHARE with the public"
I wasn't asking him to SHARE, I had issued a subpoena for that book and I was going to get it-I did and won my case-imagine that.