APU's

[LSMR]

Just read an article in the Dec/Jan 06 issue of Landline concerning APU's.
With all the no-idle laws it's a sure bet they'll be a standard item on all over the road trucks in a few years.I was surprised at the amount of manufactors who build them.

So the question is-If you have an APU what brand is it and how do you like it?

[HSLD]

I've got a Pro Heat. I've had some problems with it. I think the problems are from the quality of the installation more than the quality of the product. I disagree with the way the under bunk CCU unit was installed and the location and how the condensor was mounted on the back of the sleeper. The biggest problem, the lines feeding the condensor continually work loose and bleed off the freon. There is no provision to isolate vibration between the truck cab and the condensor, which I think is causing the problem. My CCU continually freezes up. I think it's an airflow problem, but the installer disagrees.

I do like the Pro Heat inspite of the problems. They (Pro Heat) continually work on upgrading the product. I recently found out that factory techs travel the US servicing problems, and I'm waiting for them to come to N. TX area to look over my set up.

v/r

HSLD

[Admin]

Well I agree, Proheat ( I have 5 ) is a pretty good generator. I have also Rigmaster and they are junk.

[Capt._Chaos]

I owned an AUX Generators unit & was disappointed in it (especially with the crappy electrical system). The engine blew up due to it overheating & not shutting off when a new water pump belt broke.

If I were to buy another truck & get an APU for it, I would go with a ProHeat.

[HSLD]

Well I agree, Proheat ( I have 5 ) is a pretty good generator. I have also Rigmaster and they are junk.

Are you up to date on the upgrades? CSTK pisses me off. They fail to inform me of the upgrades I need for mine, or fail to install them when I'm in for warranty work. Thankfully, a Merit driver I run into from time to time, keeps me up to speed on the upgrades and I can keep tabs on CSTK when they work on mine.


v/r

HSLD

[HSLD]

Has anyone seen the TK APU? The outside unit sure looks alot like a Proheat.

v/r

HSLD

[HSLD]

If I were to buy another truck & get an APU for it, I would go with a ProHeat.

Before the install, I'd contact Proheat. During the purchase and installation of mine, Proheat changed the installation instructions on the CCU. The original recommended mounting the CCU with the intake forward. The new (if it hasn't changed again) shows mounting it with the intake towards the rear. I can't help but think if my CCU was mounted the old way, which should increase airflow, my CCU wouldn't freeze up. Mounted as it is with the intake to the rear, I can't help but think the airflow is to restricted.

v/r

HSLD

[Paul Abelson]

Just as a 12 to 16 liter engine can be an expensive auxiliary heater/air conditioner and a generator/APU is far more efficient, an APU burning 0.2 gph can be an e4xpensive heater compared with a fuel burner at 0.05 to 0.10 gph. The TK unit combines an Espar with a generator (for air) to provide a more fuel efficient solution. Bergstrom makes a 12-v air conditioner using deep cycle batteries, also mated with an Espar for heat.

TMC is in the process of developing Recommended Practices for Truckstop Electrification (TSE), perhaps the most hardware- and energy-efficient way to provide cab comfort and engine heat. The incestment is minimal, but TSE, while growing, is still not that common.

The point is that as long as gen sets and APUs are so expensive and maintenance intensive, it's a good idea to evaluate other alternatives before deciding on any particular technology.

[Uturn2001]

The only problem I have with truck stop electrification is that it means a driver is tied to the truck stop to have heat/ac/power and as we all know not every night is spent at a truck stop.

With current HOS regualtions, namely the 34 hour reset that some drivers take on the road, and the current level of technology I feel that the APU is still the best way to go.

Whatever else someone comes up with IMHO must be able to meet certain criteria:

Fuel savings
Ability to provide heat, ac and electric power to the sleeper for at least 36 hours without recharging.
Be able to fully recharge from some type of onboard system in no more than 6 hours.

[Mark-the-Spark]

. . . . an APU burning 0.2 gph can be an expensive heater compared with a fuel burner at 0.05 to 0.10 gph.

That's what I've often thought. Last time I looked, the Espar diesel-burning heater retailed for $999 (and there may well be others, that's the only one I'm aware of) and solves half of the heat/cool situation while requiring very minimal PM.

The only caveat is that the company discourages its use above 4500 ft altitude.

http://www.espar.com/htm/Specs/airtronic2.htm

I have my doubts about the basic Bergstrom unit being able to cool the cab on problem days with a mere 3000 BTU, but that's just my unsubstantiated opinion. However, I do like the concept of a cooling system that does not require a diesel engine.

[Mark-the-Spark]

. . . . Ability to provide heat, ac and electric power to the sleeper for at least 36 hours without recharging.

The AC portion won't be able to make it that long under rough conditions, at least not without a rather huge set of batteries (about half a ton's worth).

A mid range number (and I've been looking at specs) would be about 12 hours of heavy AC use for a reasonable system.

As I noted in the prior post, I'd use a diesel fired heater for warmth.

[LSMR]

. . . . Ability to provide heat, ac and electric power to the sleeper for at least 36 hours without recharging.

The AC portion won't be able to make it that long under rough conditions, at least not without a rather huge set of batteries (about half a ton's worth).

A mid range number (and I've been looking at specs) would be about 12 hours of heavy AC use for a reasonable system.

As I noted in the prior post, I'd use a diesel fired heater for warmth.

The downside of the bergstrom A/C units are that they will only lower the temperature about 20 degrees less than the ambiant temperture.They will run off an independent set of batteries about 10-12 hours and will take appx. 4-6 hours to recharge using the trucks charging system.

The good side of this unit is the cost.It's about half of what a APU costs.I have talked with a supplier who sells these and was told that bergstrom sends a rep out to help you install the first one.

[Uturn2001]

I was pointing out what the anti-idle techology needs to strive for.

[LSMR]

I agree with you U turn.

At this time I would probably go with an APU.

It will be interesting to see what the truck mfg. will do to incorperate APU's into their new models as the no idle laws become stricter.

[HSLD]

[quote=Paul Abelson].
I have my doubts about the basic Bergstrom unit being able to cool the cab on problem days with a mere 3000 BTU, but that's just my unsubstantiated opinion. However, I do like the concept of a cooling system that does not require a diesel engine.

It won't. During the summer here in Texas, my Proheat won't cool the condo above say, shoulder level (and there is a vent at that height). So, 3000 BTU isn't going to cut it. I purchsed some 12 volt RV's fans to help move the cool air about and to get it above that level (and areas) that doesn't cool very well. I also made my own window covers out of the foil material rv dealers sell to help things out in the cool dept when the truck sits.

During the summer, I pre trip the apu, fire it up to start cooling the cab down, then I pre trip the nose of the truck, fire it up and get the a/c going. That way, I step into a cool cab to start my day. I'll keep the sleeper curtains closed going down the road to keep the cab nice and cool. When I stop to shutdown, I idle for about 4 minutes before shutting down, I fire up the apu while idling, and by the time I shut the Detroit down, I've got a nice cool cab / sleeper to relax in.

v/r

HSLD

[HSLD]

I agree with you U turn.

At this time I would probably go with an APU.

It will be interesting to see what the truck mfg. will do to incorperate APU's into their new models as the no idle laws become stricter.

I spoke with one of the Proheat reps at GATS, he said they (Proheat) had approached the truck manufacturers about installing their product from the factory or the possibility of installing a portion of the wiring harness or hoses to make later installation easier. There were told no by all the manufacturers.

v/r

HSLD

[Timothy J. Begle]

So the question is-If you have an APU what brand is it and how do you like it?
I have a ProHeat. My company is installing them on all their trucks (120+).

They got them because of all the anti-idling laws that are in the works. Our parent company that manufactures office furniture and is very environmentally conscience, therefore it helps them reach their goals of lowering air pollution in all possess of their business.

We are also involved with the EPA’s ‘SmartWay Transport Partnership’ http://www.epa.gov/smartway/index.htm (One of my friends at the EPA lurks on this board.)
:cool: :p

The company also did a Profit-Loss research to see if there would be a pay back just on fuel and engine life savings. The payback is a little over 2 years. Since we do a lot of 8 to 5 deliveries of LTL furniture our idle time has always been high, so an APU pays off well in our case.

We had a few of the same kind problems at first with our ProHeats. ProHeat did a bunch of updates, which seems to have fixed the problems.

[Mark-the-Spark]

The downside of the bergstrom A/C units are that they will only lower the temperature about 20 degrees less than the ambiant temperture.

And I think that is related to the 3000 BTU capacity. Although it would require a larger battery set, I'm somewhat surprised that they don't offer an additional larger unit. If trucks were well insulated 3000 BTU might be enough, but they aren't, so it isn't (IMHO).

During the summer here in Texas, my Proheat won't cool the condo above say, shoulder level (and there is a vent at that height).

That's an air stratification issue that can occur in any type of installation, as you have found out by installing additional fans to circulate the air. Ideally in any type of HVAC installation the cooling outlets should be installed in or near the ceiling (since cool air settles) and the heating outlets should be installed at floor level (since warm air rises).

Even a 20,000 BTU A/C is not going to make cold air rise, unless the outlet fan is strong enough to induce vertical circulation.

There are other 12 volt A/C units out there with a lot more capacity, mostly RV designs, that would probably work on a truck. One is mfd by an outfit in the Netherlands, although I'm extremely dubious about thier claim that all you need are the starter batteries (upon reflection, I'll just say it's outright BS :p ). Espar ( http://www.espar.com/htm/aircondition.htm ) appears to be a U.S. dealer for them: http://www.dcairco.com/splitt.html

[HSLD]

That's an air stratification issue that can occur in any type of installation, as you have found out by installing additional fans to circulate the air. Ideally in any type of HVAC installation the cooling outlets should be installed in or near the ceiling (since cool air settles) and the heating outlets should be installed at floor level (since warm air rises).


On my Proheat, the ducts feed a/c and heat through the same vents much the way a home a/c setup is. I have a vent at 12" above floor level, one at the bottom bunk level and one at the top bunk level.


v/r

HSLD

[Uturn2001]

Part of the problem with heating and cooling a truck, either the sleeper or cab, is the lack of insulation, especially in the floor and in the roof areas, though the walls are not much better on most trucks.

[Paul Abelson]

First of all, I did not post, quote="Mark-the-Spark"]Paul Abelson wrote:
I have my doubts about the basic Bergstrom unit being able to cool the cab on problem days with a mere 3000 BTU, but that's just my unsubstantiated opinion. However, I do like the concept of a cooling system that does not require a diesel engine."

That was posted as a reply to my post.

As far as the ability to cool with 3000 BTU, here are some things to remember:

A 3000 BTU AC will NOT chill down a cab in west Texas on a 120 degree day. It WILL maintain temperature in an already cooled cab at ambient temperatures up to about 100 degrees, provided:

- insulation in the cab , especially the roof and under floorboards (to block heat radiating from the transmission, a 700-lb heat sink at 200 +/- degrees) has been upgraded significantly.

- deep-cycle batteries are used for HVAC, with an ultracapacitor or supercapacitor for starting.

True, generators provide more capability under extreme conditions, but they cost a lot more than alternatives. If I could afford it, my choice would be a full capability APU. With limited funds, I'd give up a little to save a lot.

[Mark-the-Spark]

HSLD,

Polish your quoting skills, yer causin' confusion :p

P.S. Make sure you have two end quotes [/ quote] [/ quote] if you're quoting a quote within a quote.

Or something like that :wow:

[HSLD]

HSLD,

Polish your quoting skills, yer causin' confusion :p

P.S. Make sure you have two end quotes [/ quote] [/ quote] if you're quoting a quote within a quote.

Or something like that :wow:

Sorry, long week........... :zzz:

Me 'cause confusion? Now you know why I don't offer directions on the radio. :rofl:

v/r

HSLD

[Rev.Vassago]

That's what I've often thought. Last time I looked, the Espar diesel-burning heater retailed for $999 (and there may well be others, that's the only one I'm aware of) and solves half of the heat/cool situation while requiring very minimal PM.

Webasto also makes these, as there is one installed on my Prototype 379 Pete. It burns around 0.06 GPH, and will roast me out of the sleeper. I can run it all night with no worries of cranking over in the morning (granted, I have $200 high output batteries) From the literature that I obtained, it runs bout $2000.

[Truckdobe]

Powertech 7.5k generator w/3 cyl kubota for power. RVP 'Off-Road' (made by Coleman) 13.5k BTU A/C will freeze me out in the desert. I've never been able to keep heat strips in the roof mount, so I use a small ceramic heater with a thermostat. My bunk is well insulated, but also quite large and black, so keeping it cool is difficult; the chassis air can't do it.

It's not cheap or light, but does provide all that I need and then some. I've heard that you can buy reman units from Powertech for around $3500 plus install at their Leesburg, FL facility.

As for reliability and maintenance; it's a '92 model with 10s of thousands of hours on it (Kubota was replaced in '97, not the gen). It originally called for 100 hour changes, changed to full synthetic and now get 300 hours between services with clean oil and no usage.

Kubota parts are pricey and can be hard to find, so we stock up on filters when we get to a place that has them, or just order them and have them delivered.

[PartTimeDweller]

There is a Pro Heat dealer in Eau Claire WI, Badger Refrigeration, that hooks the Pro Heat up to the OEM heater core and AC evaporator in the bunk, which eliminates the need for the big box. The plus side is lower cost, the heat/air blows out the stock vents in the sleeper and less problems than the electric heat/ ac box. The down side is, the bunk heat and air doesn't work off the engine any more, so not recommended for teams.

I am pretty sure this is a Pro Heat option, but I could be wrong, it may be an adaptation created by the dealer.

Either way, I know an O/O that had one of those Pony Pack POS's that never worked and was in the shop constantly so he finally had Badger re-work and hook up to the OEM bunk heat/ air and it worked great.

[Capt._Chaos]

There is a Pro Heat dealer in Eau Claire WI, Badger Refrigeration, that hooks the Pro Heat up to the OEM heater core and AC evaporator in the bunk, which eliminates the need for the big box. The plus side is lower cost, the heat/air blows out the stock vents in the sleeper and less problems than the electric heat/ ac box. The down side is, the bunk heat and air doesn't work off the engine any more, so not recommended for teams.



May be one of the older ProHeat units. The units currently in production is basically a frame-mounted generator that supplies power to the all-electric A/C & Heating unit mounted under the bunk with its own fan motor & duct work, and an A/C condenser coil mounted on the back of the sleeper with a fan.

Willis and Pony Pack units both tie in with existing systems, but if the A/C system develops a freon leak, then there's no "back-up" A/C system to use like there is with other APUs that have totally separate systems.

When my now ex and I ran team the old AUX Generators unit I had saved us in Miami one summer when the truck A/C system lost a compressor clutch. We stayed comfortable until we stopped at home in San Antonio & I replaced the failed part before we continued on to San Diego.

[PartTimeDweller]

This one is fairly new Capt, the company I work for had info on it last year. This doesn't tie in to the whole truck AC system they split the two systems, the cab AC runs on the engine compressor and the bunk AC runs off the an apu compressor. It also uses the same frame mounted gen-set.

[Capt._Chaos]

This one is fairly new Capt, the company I work for had info on it last year. This doesn't tie in to the whole truck AC system they split the two systems, the cab AC runs on the engine compressor and the bunk AC runs off the an apu compressor. It also uses the same frame mounted gen-set.

It sounds like it would be an economical alternative to the more expensive complete systems out there (but like you mentioned, not for team use trucks).

The only concern I'd have is how well it would cool on extremely hot days with only the sleeper unit. Guess in those situations the driver would have to put up sun shades in the cab & close the sleeper curtain.

[maxmiddle]

I have the ProHeat Gen4. It was extremely reliable for two years. Since then, I have had a lot of small problems that rendered the unit inoperable. We run out and back and have a local dealer that treats me well. They always get me up and running quickly.

All in all, I really like the unit. Running Florida each week, it gets a workout. I do have to pre-cool the truck with the big engine, but then the ProHeat handles the rest of the night. Heating has never been a problem, it will run me out of the sleeper if I set it on high, no matter what the outside temps.

We also have a very good ThermoKing dealer near here. I have looked at their APU and feel that it is a very good unit. My next truck will have the TK. My problem with the ProHeat is locating service on the road, while there are tons of TK dealers (most will be certified on the APU's). I have a lot of confidence in TK.

In my opinion, the APU has paid for itself through a combination of fuel savings and not running the big engine, thus causing less wear and tear. I feel I have pushed back the overhaul far enough to cover the cost of the APU.

[PartTimeDweller]

It sounds like it would be an economical alternative to the more expensive complete systems out there (but like you mentioned, not for team use trucks).

.

This was what they called the fleet version. It saves from having the big electric heat A/C unit under the bunk, which if you don't have a higed bunk for acces, you have to take the mattress out and unbolt the plywood to get to it for repairs.

[HSLD]

Here's my suggestion to anyone interested in a Proheat, talk to Telex at length before buying. Download the maunals off the website and get educated on the installation.

Here's why. All of my Proheat problems appear to be the result of a crappy installation by CSTK. My condensor was monuted in the wrong place and not enough slack was left in the lines to allow for vibration. So the lines shake loose just enough for the freon to leak out. My CCU was installed backwards and restricts airflow so my CCU freezes up.

Past problems: Misrouted coolant lines that were pinched off by the pax side tool box. Misrouted lines that caused air pockets in the coolant system which caused coolant to puke out after the Proheat ran and the S60 was started.

Spent the morning at W&B in Dallas getting everything corrected that I had the time to get done this morning. It's gotta go back to have the CCU removed and remounted. Then a majority of the lines need to be re-run as well.

Bad installations appear to be a big problem with Proheats. The tech @ W&B says they've been reworking quite a few bad installations done by other companies lately. Yesterday, they had one in that caught fire because the 120v wiring was ran so that it rubbed against the frame of the truck until it shorted out and caught fire! The CCU was torched and thankfully the driver was able to put the fire out before the whole thing went up.

I'll be calling CTSK and Proheat to get something worked out for the time lost, the heartache and the $$$ I'm paying to get a poorly installed Proheat fixed. Wish me luck.

v/r

HSLD

[PartTimeDweller]

Bergstrom makes a 12-v air conditioner using deep cycle batteries, also mated with an Espar for heat.



This is what they have installed in our new trucks. The heater is awesome! Quiet and will heat the whole sleeper and cab.

As far as the A/C, I will let you know when the season arrives(soon, I hope). Two things, I only run IL, IN, OH, and a little WI, so I need the heat more than the air. Also, I drive a Pete with a 48" flatop (it's what I wanted, perfect for a part timer i'll have you know :p ) so the A/C may be ok for a small bunk, but not for a condo.

The downside to this is no engine pre heat in the winter, so she starts a little, ok, alot rough after 10 hours at 10 or less. One answer to this is a pre heater that runs like the bunk heater, but you set a timer and it runs for 2 hours and pumps hot coolant through the engine. Two of our O/O's added this and it seems to work well, but the boss is still not sure if he wants to spend the money for another item that is only going to be used a couple months a year.

[maxmiddle]

Something else to consider on APU's.

The Peoples Republik of California is considering legislation going after the exhaust emissions of our reefer units. Will it be too long before they come after our APU's?

[Paul Abelson]

For 2007 trucks, the solution is simple.Route the generator's exhaust into the truck's exhaust. It will then go through the same Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) as the engine's, meeting all regulations.

For pre-2007 trucks, CA qill require exhaust aftertreatment. The problem is that no one makes a DPF for that small an engine ... yet. Someone is probably working on it, but I've heard of no releases

[magicman]

I'll speak to the Pony Pack, since I own one. I'll list both pros and cons.

Cons first:
1) Biggest complaint on older models is the heat exchanger. It leaks exhaust horribly. The new units have a new design that is FINALLY good. No cleaning and no leaks, coolant or exhaust. We're getting ready to get rid of the heat exchanger on my unit. We'll reroute the coolant lines running up front, to run through the bunk heater. We'll put some sort of a valve, with a "Y" connector to enable use of the temp control. The kids already got this figured out, including having all the parts in the shop, ready for me.

2) Second biggest complaint is noise. The noise comes from 2 areas on the Pony Packs. First, the exhaust. When they first built them, they figured the heat exchanger quieted it down, enough. Now, remember these things were first built in the late 80's. Think about how loud the reefer units were back then. Our solution was simple.....put a muffler on it. we had the local muffler shop bend up some 90's for us, got some stainless flex pipe and a muffler for a small Japanese sub-compact. This cut the noise easily by 40-50%.

The second are of noise emission is the intake. The washable filter that Pony Pack installs is great for doing what it's supposed to do.....filter the air. The problem is these 2 cylinder Kubotas have a severe intake noise. The factory filter does nothing to isolate this. I have a friend that tried to move his air filter to a position on the back of his cab, up high. The problem is the little motor won't pull the air through the too many feet of tube. We found a filter assembly that we could mount outside the box, a short distance away. It'll also have a restriction gauge on it when we're done. This also cut more noise down. We are considering trying an intake muffler from an air compressor to see if the restriction is too great and also see how many decibles it loses. The kid's got a decible meter at work and he'll bring it to the shop when we start doing our stuff. If I think about it, I'll post the difference between the unit with no muffler, with just the muffler and with the heat exchanger out of the system.

One other thing we found on the noise issue was the fact that this is like any other diesel engine. It needs a tune up once in awhile. We timed it, it was quite aways out of time and we adjusted the valves, according to Kubota specs.

Every little thing we do lends itself to quieting the unit down.

3) My biggest con about the Pony Pack is the fact that Rex has essentially no Warranty network. They really don't want to work on the unit in Albuquerque, due to the city's new EPA regs. It would cost them a HUGE amount of money to be allowed to work on the trucks at their location. I'm lucky, because my son actually has done a lot of work on them because of me and a couple of my friends. He's listed on Pony Packs website as an authorized repair facility. His only problem with that is most people want to take it in, get it fixed, under warranty and drive out without paying. He's doesn't make anything diagnosing the problems. When he and Rex talked aboutn him doing work on the Pony Packs, it was mostly a conversation about installations. He does a beautiful job, very clean installation. They never really discussed doing warranty work. He has done a few things, for customers and been taken care of by Pony Pack, but I know he would rather install them, instead of diagnosing problems. You wouldn't believe how PO'd people get when they're told they have to pay for the work when they could have simply cleaned the unit once in awhile. Most people rarely clean the condensor and radiator on the truck, let alone the Pony Pack condensor and radiator. You would think a guy would realize with a unit that close to the ground that you'd pick up dirt and grime. Oh well ! I pull the cover off and spray it down with simple green just before I pull into the truckwash. When inside I remove the cover, have them wash the engine, the inside of the cover and then I put it back on. I also give it a good cleaning after I service the unit. Again with Simple Green and a garden hose.

Now the Pros:

1) Weight. It's one of the lightest units at 340 lbs.

2) Size. It needs very little frame space.

3) Reliability of the Kubota engine. While most of the APU's have good engines, Pony Pack uses a commercial Kubota engine. This IS NOT the same engine you find on a lawn tractor. Kubotas rarely break down and it's even more rare to have one blow up. Part of this is due to the fact it's a liquid cooled system, not an aircooled like quite a few are.

My unit was built in 1995. My engine had in excess of 40,000 hrs when I bought it used. I've put almost 3400 hrs on it since I bought it.

4) Ease of service. When you pull the cover off, you can get to the entire engine. Most parts are not exclusive Pony Pack parts. My older unit uses an alternator off an 89 Suburban with full power. It's 105 amps. This ia also a pro as far as I'm concerned. I have a lot of chicken lights, but if my main alternator fails, the Pony Pack alternator can handle it. It also has a Sanden A/C compressor that's available at any Auto parts store. Belts are all readily available there, too.

5) Cooling. The Pony Pack runs at a higher RPM than the truck's engine, actually 2800-3000 RPM's ( before you say something, see the above statement about how many hours are on this unit !!!) This forces the freon thru the system faster and actually makes the air coming out of the FACTORY vents 5-10 degrees colder than the main A/C compressor is able to.

6) Simple design. Being one of if not the first APU out there for trucks, the design has not changed over the years. Some refinements have been made, as time has progressed. Rex, the owner, doesn't like to change a proven product. That is both a pro and a con. Since he doesn't like to change things, he is missing out on the technology that enables so many of the units today start and stop, saving more fuel and to keep batteries charged.

7) No AC generator. Now, most of you are trying to figure out why the devil I called that a PRO. It's simple. The biggest failure I hear from people with other units is by far the AC generator. I don't have that worry. I have an 1800 watt Tripplite Inverter that has been running almost nonstop for almost 2 years. It gives me all the 110 power I need. Why do I need a 110 volt generator when I already have an inverter???

I'll post some more on this later, cuz I gotta pick up a load and act like a truck driver.

Dave

[Rev.Vassago]

I spoke with the ProHeat rep at the Mid America Truck Show, and was extremely impressed. They are now affiliated with Carrier, and will be seeing some drastic changes:

1. All Carrier dealers will have the option of providing ProHeat exclusively. If they choose not to supply ProHeat, then Carrier will find another dealer in that market to do so.

2. They are providing updates to ALL ProHeat gens that they have EVER sold - if there have been changes, then they will update the existing ProHeats

3. They are still reasonably priced. I was speaking with a ProHeat dealer in the Columbus area, and they will provide the ProHeat with full installation for about $7400.

From what the dealer was telling me, it all comes down to the installation. Some installers are cutting corners on the installation. I would ask the installer to provide some references to customers that have purchased their proheats from that installer, to see how reliable the installation has been.

I'm going to be putting a ProHeat on my truck in the next month, and am impressed with their track record.

[magicman]

Pony Pack...Part 2

Not much more to say about the Pony Pack, at the moment. The only thing I could think of is simply this:

I'm spoiled. I like the amount of storage I have in my truck. If I had one of the other brands, I'd lose one of my underbed storage compartments. With the Pony Pack, I use the existing A/C and heat equipmment.

Now this, to some people is a bad thing. Personally, I don't let it bother me. In a week or 2, I'll have a new A/C compressor on the Pony Pack and I should be good for the summer. After we evacuate the trucks A/C system, we'll flush the entire system out, including all the lines back to the Pony Pack. We haven't done anything to the A/C on the Pony Pack since last year, when the compressor on it started leaking freon. I figured, the heck with it, I didn't want to spend the money. Dumb move. I sat down in MS, AL and LA after the hurricanes last summer wasting fuel. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20. I actually thought I'd make it home before getting a chance to work FEMA, but it didn't work out that way.

Like I said before, I wish Rex, the owner of Pony Pack would do something along the lines of what Pro Heat, Rigmaster and Tripac have done with the automatic features. I also see Flying J is unveiling an APU. It looks like a mixture of several different units. One thing they're doing is offering a remote start feature. We have discussed doing exactly that to my Pony Pack. There are plenty of remote starting systems out there. All we'd have to do is find one that would excite the glowplug before engaging the starter. Shouldn't be too hard.

Any way, enough about Pony Packs.

One thing I will say, especially to you owner operators: If you sleep in your truck several nights a week, you need to get yourself an APU. Doesn't matter what brand, as long as it's got a decent reputation.

[HSLD]

2. They are providing updates to ALL ProHeat gens that they have EVER sold - if there have been changes, then they will update the existing ProHeats

3. They are still reasonably priced. I was speaking with a ProHeat dealer in the Columbus area, and they will provide the ProHeat with full installation for about $7400.

From what the dealer was telling me, it all comes down to the installation. Some installers are cutting corners on the installation. I would ask the installer to provide some references to customers that have purchased their proheats from that installer, to see how reliable the installation has been.

I'm going to be putting a ProHeat on my truck in the next month, and am impressed with their track record.

Response to item #2 The dealer network is very confused on what updates there are at any given time. Teleflex won't tell me what the updates are so that I can make sure the parts are in stock, so that I don't lose a bunch of time to being down for the updates. All Teleflex will say, is the dealer know what update there are. Wrong.

Response to Item # 3. Shop around, I think you can beat that price. I paid $6700.00 with the top of the line cab control unit (with battery tender).

And yes, dealers are cutting corners on the installations big time. The only problems I've had with my unit was a result of the sloppy install by CSTK.

One thing about Carrier dealers doing this, they bought on to this as filler work for the winter months when business slows. As such, their focus still remains on Carrier products first, and then whats leftover.

Rev, talk to W&B Service company in Dallas. They've been sorting out all the installation screw ups that CSTK did. They seem to be doing a good job. They are a little confused as to what updates are out there and which ones I need. Also, go to proheat.com. You can download all the installation manuals, operators manuals etc......

Hope this helps you avoid some of the heartache I've had.

v/r

HSLD

[HSLD]

Rev, PM me if you'd like to know some of the things I've learned about bad and good installations from my experiences.

These things cost a lot of money, and nothing sucks more than having you unit go down when you need it due to nothing more than a dealer doing a hap hazzard installation.

v/r

HSLD

[Rev.Vassago]

The company I am looking at is ELW Co. out of Grove City, OH. Some of the items that they specifically do:

1. They put multiple cutoff switches in the coolant lines. This way, if the unit springs a coolant leak, it can be shut off without disabling the entire truck.

2. They put cutoff switches (breakers) between the unit and the batteries.

3. They insist on mounting everything high enough to obtain optimal air flow (i.e. - the fan behind the sleeper)

4. They route the vents to areas that will provide the best heating and cooling - they don't throw all the vents down on the floor.

5. They make sure to provide a secure mounting system to the truck, and will fabricate, if necessary.

6. They stand behind their work, and have performed upgrades to previous ProHeat models.

The price they were quoting me (of $7400) included installation. I got a quote of much less from my local Peterbilt dealer, but I am wary of them installing it. I would rather pay more for a quality installation, then get off cheap on a lousy one.

[HSLD]

The company I am looking at is ELW Co. out of Grove City, OH. Some of the items that they specifically do:

1. They put multiple cutoff switches in the coolant lines. This way, if the unit springs a coolant leak, it can be shut off without disabling the entire truck.

2. They put cutoff switches (breakers) between the unit and the batteries.

3. They insist on mounting everything high enough to obtain optimal air flow (i.e. - the fan behind the sleeper)

4. They route the vents to areas that will provide the best heating and cooling - they don't throw all the vents down on the floor.

5. They make sure to provide a secure mounting system to the truck, and will fabricate, if necessary.

6. They stand behind their work, and have performed upgrades to previous ProHeat models.

The price they were quoting me (of $7400) included installation. I got a quote of much less from my local Peterbilt dealer, but I am wary of them installing it. I would rather pay more for a quality installation, then get off cheap on a lousy one.

Item #1 & #2. Great idea.

Item# 3 Make sure they secure to the back wall, the lines running to the condensor and leave some slack for cab / frame flex. Mine were not secured, and there was no slack left in the lines. So, my lines would work loose at the connections and bleed off the freon.

Item # 4 Have the 3 vent places at different heights to keep flow of air equal (as much as possible) throughout the cab. There's a fourth connection available on the CCU. It used to be recommended by Proheat to use only the three connections for the duct work.

Pay attention to how the CCU is mounted and ask about it. The installation manual has shown different ways to mount the unit depending the what version of the manual you get. My CCU is mounted with the air intake towards the back of the sleeper. I've seen installation manuals that show it that way. But, I'm having my CCU turned with the intake towards the front of the truck. I've seen installation manuals with it that way as well. My CCU will freeze up not matter the setting on the thermostat, and I can help but think the restrictive airflow from the way my CCU is mounted is causing this.

Even though this company sound lie they do good work, I'd get the manuals from proheat .com and get educated. I wish that I had before purchsing and having mine installed.

v/r

HSLD

[David_Reed]

Ok, here it is over a year later.

I am at the point where I am ready to purchase and install an APU.

I have had a ProHeat I.C.E 3.

I like it.

However there are now other choices.

1st
The New ComfortPro.
It seems the price has gone down considerably since I paid $8500 for mine in 2001.
Since I have had the experience of an installation once before and it was done right and caused no problems, I have an affinity towards it.

However, I also have a 1500 W invertor today I did not have back then. I can use it for most of my AC needs and then use the Gen only for AC the invertor can't provide.

Todays system has the battery sense feature to start as necessary to charge batteries. I believe, but am not sure, that it now starts and stops the APU as necessary to maintain the sleeper temp.
Before, mine ran full time and the A/C and heater kicked on and off as necessary, but the Kubota just kept on going.

So, why do I need a generator?
Or, why would I spend nearly $9200 for

2nd
A ThermoKing TriPac, as quoted by ThermoKing of Springfield, MO for a unit that does not have a generator?
But then, the heater is much more efficient.
But then, I tend to like sleeping in a cooler bunk, so the A/C cooling means more to me.

Then
3rd
Powertech has a unit comparable to, and maybe better than the TriPac for about $7200.

I can live without the generator, I think.

I like the more efficient diesel fired heater idea.

I could upgrade my invertor to a Xantrex 1800W that will provide True Sine wave output, like the generator or the AC you get from the utility company.

The only reason I mention this is I have a Black&Decker coffeemaker that won't operate on the Coleman Square-wave AC on an extension cord, it will only operate when plugged directly into the invertor.

Since the invertor is located as close as possible to the batteries, this prevents me from locating the coffeemaker where I want it in a cabinet on the opposite side of the sleeper.

Another upside to the ComfortPro and the ThermoKing are that they both use the trucks cooling system and thereby heat the block in the winter.

The Powertech cooling system is self contained and would require either another diesel fired heater to warm the block or run the electric block heater from the invertor. That, however, would put a real strain on the batteries in the discgarge/charge realm and the alternator on the APU.

So the options are;

1
ComfortPro about $6700-$7400 live with existing invertor and use Gen to power coffeemaker
TriPac about $9200 + $1000 invertor
Powertech $7200 + $1000 invertor